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View Poll Results: What will be the outcome of this session?
InTheFlesh86 will win Part 1, but lose Part 2. 5 5.26%
InTheFlesh86 will win Part 2, but lose Part 1. 6 6.32%
InTheFlesh86 will win both Part 1 and Part 2 (most likely). 20 21.05%
InTheFlesh86 will lose both Part 1 and Part 2 (<1% chance). 13 13.68%
I want Dez to make InTheFlesh86 cry. 51 53.68%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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  #201  
Old 03-Oct-20, 10:20
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Royh Royh is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Great review. Thanks for sharing with us and putting so much effort in the pics and videos. It was good that you selected someone as (relatively) big as Dez as most of the small girls would be powerless and ineffective in their efforts. VeVe however might give you a good run. Sheena undoubtly will be able to score some submissions as well. If still active and reachable, Yasmin will also have no issues. But it would really take the very top of the first tier girls to have a chance. Anyway congratulations and hope we could see more.
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  #202  
Old 03-Oct-20, 17:03
boyofwinter boyofwinter is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

I just want to make a point of focusing on Dez's conditioning here. Dealing with a guy, and guys are naturally stronger, who is 175% of your own weight for an hour takes extraordinary effort.
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  #203  
Old 03-Oct-20, 17:40
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Thanks for the comments everyone!

UPDATE (36 hours after session):

Shoulders are sore, traps are sore, back of neck is sore, front of neck is sore, left shin muscles sore, tongue is sore (?), hands are sore, and my trachea is still bruised and painful when I swallow and occasionally causes me to cough. I'm not sure, but if I had to guess, I'd say Dez probably has about 0 of those symptoms right now...

Some things I forgot to mention:

I hope people don't take away from this review that these moves don't work or aren't effective--They definitely are. But when you have a 120lbs+, 2x+ strength advantage on someone, it's just really easy to manipulate their weight around. Despite being a bigger girl, Dez felt like a feather when she was on my back or sitting/standing on me (When I said "cut!" at the end of the shirt ripping video, it wasn't because I was in pain, I was just trying to be funny). At one point I had Dez across my shoulders and was able to stand up with her and give her a little "lift and carry" session around the cage. She said "I feel like this is my session now!" and I said, "why do men like this?". She wasn't sure but said it was fun.

Another thing I was curious about was the whole "jumping guard" phenomenon. It always seems like girls pull that off against guys and I've never understood why it worked. I asked Dez and she said it was because those guys were weak and/or the girl was roughly the same size, but that it wouldn't work on me. She tried it on me a couple of times and it felt about like someone handing me a sack of groceries, so not too effective

Here are some clips that I didn't have to time censor my ugly face out of last night:

1. This is that "Dez on my back" move I mentioned earlier. And yeah, sorry my pants were falling down and I decided to wear bright blue underwear...


2. Crucifix Crank - This is probably my favorite video we took! I don't know if I could have gotten out were it not for the cage being there.


3. Reverse Headscissors - It actually looks like she "lets" me out at the end, but I don't believe that was the case. Whenever I started to slip out of a hold, she would instinctively release me and transition to something else.


4. Rear Triangle - Pretty tough, but again I think we could tweak this and make it even tougher. I really think she could trap me in this one if we got it right.


5. SGP - I figured I'd throw this in. It doesn't look nearly as impressive as I hoped, since she just bounces right back on, but it was really easy to lift her off. She decided to sit on my face for a second just prior to this clip, but you can kind of see the tail end of it at the beginning haha.


Finally, attached are some pictures I forgot to share!
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Last edited by InTheFlesh86; 03-Oct-20 at 17:50.
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  #204  
Old 03-Oct-20, 19:09
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by koblvd [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Is it your preference or hers that you don't go all out mma? As skilled as she might be, in a real fight your size advantage would have her knocked out at the end of one round if you go all out. Too big too strong.
Anyway, thank you for sharing. I wish you definitely recorded it though.
Haha thanks for that vote of confidence. I got tired too fast and didn't really think about doing MMA. I wouldn't mind it if she wanted to punch and kick me but I don't think I'd want to hit back. I posted some more videos in my latest post, so check those out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
In my experience untrained people ends up completely exhausted very quickly regardless of their cardio level, since they use all of their energy in every move, immediately burning it all.
This is undoubtedly correct as well, but trust me, my cardio is also really bad and there's no reason why it shouldn't be given the way I train!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
-Did you record anything else, besides the few short clips you linked in your review?

-Why didn't you try the rear naked choke among the submission holds you tried to escape?
I think it was the most interesting one to see if you could get out.

-How did the "on your back" part work? She had to be able to stay on your back without being allowed to put you in a choke?

-I'm not sure if I have understand the part about the ankle lock, did she make you tap out with it during the actual session match? So you didn't tap only to the guillotine?
How many times did she tap you exactly?
1. I posted more videos and pictures in my latest post.
2. Ugh I know, I forgot RNC and mounted triangle. Not sure what would happen. I'll get it next time.
3. I included the vid in my latest post.
4. I think she attempted it 3 separate times, and one of those times I tapped. She was surprised at how hard it was to bend my foot haha

Another thing that she said gave her trouble was my grip strength which she described as being a "gorilla grip". Basically I would just grab her wrists and hang on for dear life while I tried to catch my breath.


It is such a weird and terrifying feeling being exhausted and seeing an attractive woman advancing toward you as you instinctively start backing away. It's this feeling,


Last edited by InTheFlesh86; 03-Oct-20 at 19:17.
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  #205  
Old 03-Oct-20, 19:46
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
1. I posted more videos and pictures in my latest post.
2. Ugh I know, I forgot RNC and mounted triangle. Not sure what would happen. I'll get it next time.
3. I included the vid in my latest post.
4. I think she attempted it 3 separate times, and one of those times I tapped. She was surprised at how hard it was to bend my foot haha
So how many times did you tap exactly during the session?
As far as I understand three times (a guillotine choke, an ankle lock and once more due to exhaustion), six if we count the isolated moves challenges (the triangle choke and the two armbar).
There are more?

Plus by chance, did you also record the armbar?
(I understand that if you had you would have already posted it, but hope is the last thing to die).

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 03-Oct-20 at 20:53.
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  #206  
Old 03-Oct-20, 20:58
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
So how many times did you tap exactly during the session?
As far as I understand three times (a guillotine choke, an ankle lock and once more due to exhaustion), six if we count the isolated moves challenges (the triangle choke and the two armbar).
There are more?

Plus by chance, did you also record the armbar?
(I understand that if you had you would have already posted it, but hope is the last thing to die).
Come to think of it, I might have tapped another time to a neck crank, or maybe that was the guillotine? It's all a blur. In hindsight I almost wish I had done the move challenges first before the sparring. I wanted to be fresh which is why I did the sparring first, but I think it would have been good to do something else first to get myself a little more comfortable touching her. I realize most guys, especially my age probably don't have that problem, but I think it really prevented me from being nearly as aggressive as I could have been. Next time will be even better!

And no, it doesn't look like we got the arm bar. It wasn't too exciting though, the first time she just slowly extended it out until I tapped, and the second time I had about a 15 degree bend in my arm and it took her about 5 seconds to tap me. I think if I had my arm fully bent I could probably hold my own.

Last edited by InTheFlesh86; 03-Oct-20 at 21:10.
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  #207  
Old 03-Oct-20, 21:32
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Thanks for the comments everyone!

UPDATE (36 hours after session):

Shoulders are sore, traps are sore, back of neck is sore, front of neck is sore, left shin muscles sore, tongue is sore (?), hands are sore, and my trachea is still bruised and painful when I swallow and occasionally causes me to cough. I'm not sure, but if I had to guess, I'd say Dez probably has about 0 of those symptoms right now...

Some things I forgot to mention:

I hope people don't take away from this review that these moves don't work or aren't effective--They definitely are. But when you have a 120lbs+, 2x+ strength advantage on someone, it's just really easy to manipulate their weight around. Despite being a bigger girl, Dez felt like a feather when she was on my back or sitting/standing on me (When I said "cut!" at the end of the shirt ripping video, it wasn't because I was in pain, I was just trying to be funny). At one point I had Dez across my shoulders and was able to stand up with her and give her a little "lift and carry" session around the cage. She said "I feel like this is my session now!" and I said, "why do men like this?". She wasn't sure but said it was fun.

Another thing I was curious about was the whole "jumping guard" phenomenon. It always seems like girls pull that off against guys and I've never understood why it worked. I asked Dez and she said it was because those guys were weak and/or the girl was roughly the same size, but that it wouldn't work on me. She tried it on me a couple of times and it felt about like someone handing me a sack of groceries, so not too effective
Something I want to point out is that most of the moves you tried in those challenges are not moves who are supposed to work on a bigger and stronger opponent, and many (such as boston crab, camel clutch, headscissors, full nelson etc....) are not even legit BJJ moves in the first place, they aren't taught in actual grappling sports classes because they are very low percentage and you only see them in sexual mixed wrestling videos because they are exciting for the customers.

Among the moves who are supposed to work even with a massive strenght and size disadvantage, you have to distinguish between submissions and controlling positions.
Some submissions such as rear naked chokes, armbars and heel hooks should work and finish the fight without much trouble even with a truly massive size/strenght gap, and in fact you were not able to escape from armbars (and you didn't try RNC and heel hooks).

About controlling positions (such as mount, side mount, back control, guard etc....), the challenge format of forcing her to stay in one single position and stopping when you are out can be very misleading and make you think they are much less effective than they really are, since what makes them effective against a much bigger and stronger guy is flowing from one to another according to his reactions.
It's very hard and unlikely to keep someone that much larger pinned to a stationary position, but there is no need to, since when he muscles out not only he tires himself out while you stay fresh, but more important he also unknowingly expose himself to submissions or transitions to worse position.
It's not the single technique that work but chaining them together properly.

This is very apparent in the second side control clip, where you did escape, but to do so you had to expose your back and give her an easy rear naked choke opportunity, which is actually way worse than not escaping.
It's going from the frypan to the fire.

Just to make sure you don't think I'm making excuses for Dez or grappling's technique on the spot, I can show you my old posts were I have always said the same exact things countless times over the months XD

Also if you remember I also anticipated, answering your specific questions, that full nelson, jumping guard and SGP/high mount would have no chance to work against a much bigger and stronger opponent.

I don't think it made sense to try the SGP in the first place, it's just her bodyweight on you, the result was obvious.
It's something that works only with people of similar size and it's used only in sexualised wrestling, not in actual grappling competition.

It would have been much more interesting to see if you could escape a low mount with hooks in (or "grapevine"), which I can assure you is extremely effective for controlling very strong guys since the hooks prevent you from being tossed away no matter how hard they push.
I don't know if you would have been able to escape, and I would have been very interested in finding out, remember it for the next time. XD

I mean like this:


Last edited by Elbow Escape; 03-Oct-20 at 21:39.
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  #208  
Old 03-Oct-20, 22:31
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It would have been much more interesting to see if you could escape a low mount with hooks in (or "grapevine"), which I can assure you is extremely effective for controlling very strong guys since the hooks prevent you from being tossed away no matter how hard they push.
I don't know if you would have been able to escape, and I would have been very interested in finding out, remember it for the next time. XD
Haha well we've had this debate before! You and I are just interested in different things. Your focus seems to be mainly BJJ, and how a larger guy would fare in a pure BJJ competition, whereas I was more interested in a less formal challenge with moves that I commonly see on the internet and wanted to know how they felt in person (hence the SGP, full nelson etc). I've conceded several times before that I would lose a BJJ match, so the fact that she "would have" RNC'd me after I escaped wasn't really on my mind.

But I'll tell you what, get enough guys on this forum to pitch in a little money to Jennifer Thomas, and maybe we can setup a live stream submission challenge featuring me and Dez (or whoever) where users can send in whatever moves they want her to try on me
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  #209  
Old 03-Oct-20, 23:19
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Haha well we've had this debate before! You and I are just interested in different things. Your focus seems to be mainly BJJ, and how a larger guy would fare in a pure BJJ competition, whereas I was more interested in a less formal challenge with moves that I commonly see on the internet and wanted to know how they felt in person (hence the SGP, full nelson etc). I've conceded several times before that I would lose a BJJ match, so the fact that she "would have" RNC'd me after I escaped wasn't really on my mind.
I think you misunderstand me, I'm also more interested in how an actual fight would go like you, but:
-The low mount with hooks in work extremely well against much bigger guys and is extremely useful both in pure bjj and in a real fight.
-She could have attempted to rear naked choke you while you were trying to escape side control (or more generally use your escape attempts against you by flowing to a better position/submission instead of being forced to keep the same) exactly the same in BJJ and in a real fight.

Everything I wrote apply to a BJJ, MMA or no rules fight.

That's why I tell you to be careful to not make the mistake of understimating the effectiveness of some positions (both in a grappling match and in a real fight) just because you were able to get out, since their effectiveness don't lie in the isolated techniques but in chaining them together depending on your reactions.

Added after 6 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I've conceded several times before that I would lose a BJJ match, so the fact that she "would have" RNC'd me after I escaped wasn't really on my mind.
If I have understand correctly now you also think you would lose in a MMA fight, or did I get it wrong?

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 03-Oct-20 at 23:19.
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  #210  
Old 03-Oct-20, 23:26
Joulnx10 Joulnx10 is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Great job with this IntheFlesh86 !
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