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  #21  
Old 15-Jan-18, 00:52
escapeartist escapeartist is offline
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Default Re: What is the hardest hold to get out of?

From the provided list, you really cannot go past a well executed RNC, especially with scissors/triangle applied by opponent, there's a certain claustrophobic/drowning panic that can kick in and it's usually game over in that case. Needless to say is the stronger position of their limbs that are squeezing inwards, where as you need to be peeling them outwards which is the area people tend to have less strength for. So unless you are well versed in finding their fingers and happy to risk breaking them, this is an unlikely escape if facing a non-arch enemy type of opponent.

I personally have trouble getting out of grapevine pins. If the opponent isn't a complete flyweight, and they straighten their arms, it's a big task. Most women I have wrestled have had a flexibility advantage, and late in the match this is a good way to score against me, and others from what I hear. If I wasn't stronger then most women this hold would be my complete annihilation.
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  #22  
Old 16-Jan-18, 20:35
Raoul Fulgurex Raoul Fulgurex is offline
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Default Re: What is the hardest hold to get out of?

I'll consider that the question is about escaping the hold, not about escaping the hold before being KOed. I will also consider that these are "pure" holds, not combos. Generally combos are much harder to get out of. I love combo holds !

All that is below is based on my experience of wrestling my wife, who is strong, but not super-strong. But then, I am not very strong either.

Among the holds listed, for me the hardest to get out are

1) Lotus lock. I have no idea how one would escape that one unless there is a huuuge strength differential. Basically it is about outmuscling someone's legs with one's upper arms. Good luck with that
2) Figure 4s. If the angle is proper, one cannot even reach the leg that locks the choking leg, and without unfolding that leg, even the girl would find it hard to undo the figure 4.
3) RNC. There is a possibility of reaching for the back arm and unknot it if one is not KOed before, but I am almost sure that the girl can use her head to stop that. Also with a strong neck one could try to scramble and turn oneself to face the girl. As has been mentioned, if there is a hook or figure-4 body scissors, then it is impossible. But that would be a combo hold.

Straight scissors are the most brutal as far as pressure is concerned, but if the girl doesn't use her arms there are possibilities to get on top of her and use gravity. That generally won't be enough to get out immediately but it will be tiring for the girl to keep the hold against gravity.

Finally, the camel clutch, boston crab and spladle (not mentioned) are absolutely inescapable as far as I know.
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Old 16-Jan-18, 21:25
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: What is the hardest hold to get out of?

Does anyone know the name of this hold (reverse scissor with arms held behind back)? It also strikes me as hard/impossible to get out of. I wanted to put it on my list but didn't know what it was called.
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Old 16-Jan-18, 21:54
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LicensetoKill LicensetoKill is offline
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Default Re: What is the hardest hold to get out of?

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Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Does anyone know the name of this hold (reverse scissor with arms held behind back)? It also strikes me as hard/impossible to get out of. I wanted to put it on my list but didn't know what it was called.
Nice picture. Ziggy got me in that one once. I was completely immobilized. The guy in the picture still has one arm free. In the ideal hold, she has both his arms wrapped up behind his back,
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Old 17-Jan-18, 11:58
Raoul Fulgurex Raoul Fulgurex is offline
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Default Re: What is the hardest hold to get out of?

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Originally Posted by LicensetoKill [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Nice picture. Ziggy got me in that one once. I was completely immobilized. The guy in the picture still has one arm free. In the ideal hold, she has both his arms wrapped up behind his back,
Exactly. It is quite easy for the girl to hold both his arms behind his back, and that is not something one could get out of. Combo holds !
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Old 17-Jan-18, 15:32
pinme pinme is offline
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Default Re: What is the hardest hold to get out of?

I have found the pubis choke with arms locked above the head using the knees to be impossible to escape from.
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Old 17-Jan-18, 16:42
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Default Re: What is the hardest hold to get out of?

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Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Yep, said the same thing. Not much you can do there.
In your pic, he has a free arm that he can use to reduce the pressure on his neck.

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Originally Posted by pinme [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I have found the pubis choke with arms locked above the head using the knees to be impossible to escape from.
Buck the hips and get yourself free.
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Old 17-Jan-18, 22:10
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Default Re: What is the hardest hold to get out of?

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Originally Posted by pinme [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I have found the pubis choke with arms locked above the head using the knees to be impossible to escape from.
That's a tough one to escape from cause I like being held in it.
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  #29  
Old 18-Jan-18, 01:19
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Default Re: What is the hardest hold to get out of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinme [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I have found the pubis choke with arms locked above the head using the knees to be impossible to escape from.
Correect, against a heavy woman like Tia
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  #30  
Old 20-Jan-18, 12:57
wrestling47 wrestling47 is offline
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Default Re: What is the hardest hold to get out of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Does anyone know the name of this hold (reverse scissor with arms held behind back)? It also strikes me as hard/impossible to get out of. I wanted to put it on my list but didn't know what it was called.
not impossible. Headscissors aren't really submission holds because you can sustain them if you're trying to escape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoul Fulgurex [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I'll consider that the question is about escaping the hold, not about escaping the hold before being KOed. I will also consider that these are "pure" holds, not combos. Generally combos are much harder to get out of. I love combo holds !

All that is below is based on my experience of wrestling my wife, who is strong, but not super-strong. But then, I am not very strong either.

Among the holds listed, for me the hardest to get out are

1) Lotus lock. I have no idea how one would escape that one unless there is a huuuge strength differential. Basically it is about outmuscling someone's legs with one's upper arms. Good luck with that
2) Figure 4s. If the angle is proper, one cannot even reach the leg that locks the choking leg, and without unfolding that leg, even the girl would find it hard to undo the figure 4.
3) RNC. There is a possibility of reaching for the back arm and unknot it if one is not KOed before, but I am almost sure that the girl can use her head to stop that. Also with a strong neck one could try to scramble and turn oneself to face the girl. As has been mentioned, if there is a hook or figure-4 body scissors, then it is impossible. But that would be a combo hold.

Straight scissors are the most brutal as far as pressure is concerned, but if the girl doesn't use her arms there are possibilities to get on top of her and use gravity. That generally won't be enough to get out immediately but it will be tiring for the girl to keep the hold against gravity.

Finally, the camel clutch, boston crab and spladle (not mentioned) are absolutely inescapable as far as I know.
I have yet to this day been unable to escape a headscissor when I wanted to. They aren't that effective.

For me, if you're in a well executed RNC, you are screwed.

Armbar, figure four are pretty much instant submissions

I haven't been in an omomplata, but would be very difficult to escape.
Headlocks and guillotines are difficult to escape but not always submissions, but if you were up against a skilled female with a weight advantage you might be in trouble.

Can't remember the hold, its a frontal RNC, very hard to escape.

Another hold I've submitted someone in that I don't know the name (would appreciate the name) is I do a headlock with my wrist and forearm behind my back and lean back into it. The person I wrestled refused to submit and they got hurt.


Here are some of the brutal holds to escape.
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