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  #351  
Old 23-Oct-20, 06:01
Ryan Futuristics Ryan Futuristics is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

This isn't the study I'm looking for – there's one on college-age competitive cyclists that found a few girls blew everyone out the water on 1RM leg strength .. But this is sort of how it is at the gym.

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Top chart (men), bottom chart (women) .. Body mass vs 1RM leg press:



So while men as a group are larger and stronger, even in a small sample, you've got *some* girls pressing 300 and 270kg, and *some* guys pressing 140-150kg .. So it's not uncommon to have a girl, out of a group of 20 who's twice as strong as a guy in a group of 20 .. And these are 18-29 year-olds .. Throw some middle-aged men who've been sat at a desk for 20 years in there and there'll be some astonishingly bad scores.
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  #352  
Old 23-Oct-20, 14:35
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jiminy jiminy is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Quote:
In the first-ever study of its kind, San Francisco State University and California State University, Fullerton researchers found that elite women weightlifters have the same amount -- and in some cases more -- of the muscle fibers needed for the sport compared to their male counterparts. These "fast twitch fibers" are especially suited to fast and powerful movements, such as those in "clean and jerk" lifts. By finding that males don't have more of the fibers, the study, published on March 27 in PLOS ONE, helps disprove a stereotype about women athletes that has persisted for years.
Sorry if this is a repost, but I've often heard it banded around that "men have more fast twitch muscle fibers".

I guess this is why some men can dedicate their lives to weightlifting, like the two Olympic males I highlighted earlier who were national champions and good enough to represent their countries but still inferior to the gold-medal winning woman in their weight class.

Higher testosterone levels can't trump a skeletal structure and central nervous system genetically superior at producing force.
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  #353  
Old 24-Oct-20, 08:05
time2windis time2windis is online now
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by Ryan Futuristics [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
You were just agreeing with things I'd already said – hence the 'retarded' comment.
You said “male muscle and female muscle are no different” - like obviously? How is this something novel that literally everyone doesn’t know?

I was pointing out how absolutely redundant it was to say “if you control for body weight and body fat, male and females are just as strong”.

Yes, actin-myosin cycles are actin-myosin cycles... LOL
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  #354  
Old 24-Oct-20, 10:54
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Futuristics [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This isn't the study I'm looking for – there's one on college-age competitive cyclists that found a few girls blew everyone out the water on 1RM leg strength .. But this is sort of how it is at the gym.

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Top chart (men), bottom chart (women) .. Body mass vs 1RM leg press:



So while men as a group are larger and stronger, even in a small sample, you've got *some* girls pressing 300 and 270kg, and *some* guys pressing 140-150kg .. So it's not uncommon to have a girl, out of a group of 20 who's twice as strong as a guy in a group of 20 .. And these are 18-29 year-olds .. Throw some middle-aged men who've been sat at a desk for 20 years in there and there'll be some astonishingly bad scores.
the linear regression here shows actually that it takes on average a 85 kg woman to leg press as much as a 60 kg man...
quite crazy difference here. and we talk about legs here, not upper body.
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  #355  
Old 24-Oct-20, 13:14
del del is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by garcon55 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
the linear regression here shows actually that it takes on average a 85 kg woman to leg press as much as a 60 kg man...
quite crazy difference here. and we talk about legs here, not upper body.
As usual, garcon highlights the average while ignoring the range evident in the actual observations upon which the regression line is based. One of those observations is of a less than 75 kg woman who presses slightly more than 300 kg., compared with a man of the same weight presses slightly less than 300 kg. Garcon likes to argue that any observation like this should be ignored because it is an outlier (i.e. not on the regression line) and therefore it is some kind of freak accident that is not worth talking about. This line of thinking is bogus.
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  #356  
Old 24-Oct-20, 20:28
diodidio diodidio is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Which Is stronger body triangle or bodyscissor?
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  #357  
Old 24-Oct-20, 21:16
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by del [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
As usual, garcon highlights the average while ignoring the range evident in the actual observations upon which the regression line is based. One of those observations is of a less than 75 kg woman who presses slightly more than 300 kg., compared with a man of the same weight presses slightly less than 300 kg. Garcon likes to argue that any observation like this should be ignored because it is an outlier (i.e. not on the regression line) and therefore it is some kind of freak accident that is not worth talking about. This line of thinking is bogus.
As usual Del highlights the 1% of the female population which approaches the strength of an average male and ignores the 99% which are far from it...
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  #358  
Old 25-Oct-20, 06:49
Ryan Futuristics Ryan Futuristics is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by time2windis [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
You said “male muscle and female muscle are no different” - like obviously? How is this something novel that literally everyone doesn’t know?

I was pointing out how absolutely redundant it was to say “if you control for body weight and body fat, male and females are just as strong”.

Yes, actin-myosin cycles are actin-myosin cycles... LOL
MegaLMAO b2b turboLOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by garcon55 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
the linear regression here shows actually that it takes on average a 85 kg woman to leg press as much as a 60 kg man...
quite crazy difference here. and we talk about legs here, not upper body.
Of course – no one sane is suggesting women are the stronger sex.

But how common is it for a particular woman to be stronger than an average man? Well, in a group of 20 people, it's not that uncommon .. But it's also what makes these particular women attractive
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  #359  
Old 25-Oct-20, 06:55
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Futuristics [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
MegaLMAO b2b turboLOL



Of course – no one sane is suggesting women are the stronger sex.

But how common is it for a particular woman to be stronger than an average man? Well, in a group of 20 people, it's not that uncommon .. But it's also what makes these particular women attractive
here this particular measurement represents less than 5%, and we talk about leg strength.
For upperbody strength this goes down to may be 1-2%.
If you consider the weight difference between both sexes, then it is highly uncommon.
actually EXTREMLY uncommon.




In the range of 20-40 years old, only one woman is above the average in a very large sample.
In the 20-30 years old range, no woman reaches the average male strength.

Last edited by garcon55; 25-Oct-20 at 09:22.
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  #360  
Old 08-Nov-20, 14:35
del del is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by garcon55 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
here this particular measurement represents less than 5%, and we talk about leg strength.
For upperbody strength this goes down to may be 1-2%.
If you consider the weight difference between both sexes, then it is highly uncommon.
actually EXTREMLY uncommon.




In the range of 20-40 years old, only one woman is above the average in a very large sample.
In the 20-30 years old range, no woman reaches the average male strength.
1-2% is not extremely uncommon. In pre-covid days working on a college campus, I encountered more than a hundred women a day. 1-2 of them might have been above the male average in upper body strength.

Green is hard to read in that chart. If you look closely, then you will find there are several green circles above the male average.

In answer to the question in this thread, it is 100% realistic to conceive of a woman being stronger than a man. It is, as we all agree, far from the norm, but it is not not extremely rare either.
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