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  #31  
Old 07-Dec-20, 15:32
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Default Re: Friendly legality discussion

Changed the thread title to a more suitable name
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  #32  
Old 07-Dec-20, 16:11
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Default Re: Very very important, written consent and legality!!!

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Originally Posted by alias702212 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
... lawyers will be involved in any case. With or without written paper of consent.
Well if you have legal insurance(Rechtschutz- german) I don't see a problem.
Insurance companies employ lawyers to handle the papers, but also to do administrative work in case of legal complications. But like I said it was only german example.
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  #33  
Old 07-Dec-20, 20:42
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Default Re: Friendly legality discussion

In my case, the 'liability' thing would not be because I intend to, or would accidentally, hurt the woman. It's because, with as far as I'd want her to go, there'd be a very real chance (or at least so goes the hope) that she would hurt me -- and I wouldn't want her to get into any trouble for that.

It seems to me, though, that a waiver/release/paperwork of any kind is the farthest thing from the way to do that, because such a thing would leave a paper trail that leads right back to her.
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  #34  
Old 07-Dec-20, 21:25
Backdoorman Backdoorman is offline
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Default Re: Friendly legality discussion

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Originally Posted by scissortoy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
In my case, the 'liability' thing would not be because I intend to, or would accidentally, hurt the woman. It's because, with as far as I'd want her to go, there'd be a very real chance (or at least so goes the hope) that she would hurt me -- and I wouldn't want her to get into any trouble for that.

It seems to me, though, that a waiver/release/paperwork of any kind is the farthest thing from the way to do that, because such a thing would leave a paper trail that leads right back to her.
When discussing legal protections, the question isn't "What should limit me?" but "what protects me from the biggest fucking asshole that I can think of?"

Besides, you know what really gets your name tied to something embarrassing? Lawsuits.
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  #35  
Old 09-Dec-20, 14:16
mrbastard mrbastard is offline
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Default Re: Friendly legality discussion

Well, addressing this from a US legal perspective . . .

There is no need to "legalize," in the sense of criminal law, mixed wrestling sessions because they are legal anywhere in the US. So are other combat sports, hockey, skiing, all inherently dangerous to some degree. So is consensual choking, or other S&M sports, short of prostitution.

So that's criminal. No issue. The other issue is whether either girl or client could be civilly liable to pay money following an injury. We used to have something called "assumption of risk," which classically would say, "you went skiing and broke your leg. You knew it was dangerous and did it anyway. The ski resort owes you nothing." This has mostly been replaced by "percentage fault," as in "90% was your being an idiot on a ski slope, and 10% was the ski resort maintaining an unreasonably dangerous trail, or tree, or whatever." So, it may be different in other countries, but here, the only real legal question is whether either girl or customer would have to pay for the other's injury, and who was at fault to what degree.

I have done 15 or so sessions and had the girl present me with a waiver maybe once --
I honestly don't remember which girl. If I got hurt and sued her, she could present the waiver as a defense. It may prevail, or reduce her percentage of fault, or be totally worthless, depending on the court, and on what actually happened.

My view (I signed the waiver, no problem) is that this is generally not worth the trouble. Insurance companies end up involved in most suits involving physical injury. At some point you are going to have to admit to their lawyers that you had an agreement where you asked her to hurt you. So, unless she freaked out and did something really violent -- this could happen in a hockey game as well -- your lawsuit is going nowhere fast anyway. It's not just whether she broke your arm, it's whether she did something outside of your agreement that led to this. That's a complicated and expensive argument to have.

So just show the girls some damn respect and be very clear about what your limits will be. As a lawyer I can tell you you don't need a lawyer.
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  #36  
Old 09-Dec-20, 17:00
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Wink Re: Friendly legality discussion

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Originally Posted by mrbastard [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Well, addressing this from a US legal perspective . . .

There is no need to "legalize," in the sense of criminal law, mixed wrestling sessions because they are legal anywhere in the US. So are other combat sports, hockey, skiing, all inherently dangerous to some degree. So is consensual choking, or other S&M sports, short of prostitution.

So that's criminal. No issue. The other issue is whether either girl or client could be civilly liable to pay money following an injury. We used to have something called "assumption of risk," which classically would say, "you went skiing and broke your leg. You knew it was dangerous and did it anyway. The ski resort owes you nothing." This has mostly been replaced by "percentage fault," as in "90% was your being an idiot on a ski slope, and 10% was the ski resort maintaining an unreasonably dangerous trail, or tree, or whatever." So, it may be different in other countries, but here, the only real legal question is whether either girl or customer would have to pay for the other's injury, and who was at fault to what degree.

I have done 15 or so sessions and had the girl present me with a waiver maybe once --
I honestly don't remember which girl. If I got hurt and sued her, she could present the waiver as a defense. It may prevail, or reduce her percentage of fault, or be totally worthless, depending on the court, and on what actually happened.

My view (I signed the waiver, no problem) is that this is generally not worth the trouble. Insurance companies end up involved in most suits involving physical injury. At some point you are going to have to admit to their lawyers that you had an agreement where you asked her to hurt you. So, unless she freaked out and did something really violent -- this could happen in a hockey game as well -- your lawsuit is going nowhere fast anyway. It's not just whether she broke your arm, it's whether she did something outside of your agreement that led to this. That's a complicated and expensive argument to have.

So just show the girls some damn respect and be very clear about what your limits will be. As a lawyer I can tell you you don't need a lawyer.
First of all I would like to thank you with all my hart for a straightforward, expert, and honest answer/opinion. It helps to clear up the situation in the USA concerning the questions of legality and safety.
I have a couple more questions following your comment:
1. Paying someone for a service rendered if it is not taxed, is it not a criminal activity - not paying taxes?
2. Is it not that you than(by not paying taxes) forfeit any chance for a reclamation afterwards(in case that one of you or both(seller and buyer) should cross the predetermined line and cause unwanted/unnecessary injury)
3. Is it possible that because of this not being a regulated activity(as performed through sports clubs) and therefore an uncertain endeavor it still is a niche and not an industry? Could it be that there is an overwhelming interest in this sort of activities, but because of taboo which is connected to an inseparable erotic part of these activities, fear of injury and because of social stigmatization due to sub/dom part there is a greater percentage of people which stay hidden and suppressed when, if legal and regulated, they would feel more accepted and secure enough to give/purchase services or simply enjoy life as their own ''unbranded'' kind of people(more self respect)?

I suppose that there is that feeling of 'rush' for some when purchasing a service which includes them getting hurt by a stranger. I guess that they are adventurers in that sort of way.
But could it be called responsible in any possible meaning of the word?
That combined with the truth that most of the society prefers well known and regulated vs strange and unregulated makes me think that, by doing an effort to bring regulation and commercialization into the pleasure and pain business, we could actually be hitting a gold mine.
Hey, but that's just me.
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  #37  
Old 09-Dec-20, 18:53
uxiel uxiel is offline
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Default Re: Friendly legality discussion

Tax evasion is a crime. Usually it's not a big deal at small scale. If you sell a $15 book on Amazon once a year, no one will care (or know). In fact, Amazon (and other companies) may not report your taxes to the IRS unless you make a certain amount (at least $1k, $2k, whatever). I am sure many session girls collect the fee tax-free. I am not sure what to claim as your occupation if you do pay the taxes. Again, it's all a bigger deal if you're going on a tour and making $20k than if you make $400 off a session once.

I dunno what taxes have to do with this. Most likely you just want to avoid needing hospital care in the US regardless, it's going to cost a fortune, possibly even with top-notch insurance. If something can be profitized, it will be here. And anything with red tape, insurance, whatever, even if you collect money, it's going to take a long time, so you may need to foot some bills temporarily at least.
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  #38  
Old 14-May-21, 08:58
Cartoonpanties Cartoonpanties is offline
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Default Legality of sessions? (Especially NY)

Hi, this is my first time posting, I’m a little new to the scene. My question is regarding the legality of sessions (particularly in nyc), are they legal? I know no sex is offered obviously but I can see how some things can be seen as paying for a sexual act (facesitting, for example). I’ve never had a session but I really want to book a session (was thinking tempest) but I have a fear that I could get into serious legal trouble which can ruin my life and/or force me to out my fetish

Any advice? Has anyone ever experienced legal troubles with wrestling?
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  #39  
Old 14-May-21, 17:47
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Default Re: Legality of sessions? (Especially NY)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartoonpanties [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Hi, this is my first time posting, I’m a little new to the scene. My question is regarding the legality of sessions (particularly in nyc), are they legal? I know no sex is offered obviously but I can see how some things can be seen as paying for a sexual act (facesitting, for example). I’ve never had a session but I really want to book a session (was thinking tempest) but I have a fear that I could get into serious legal trouble which can ruin my life and/or force me to out my fetish

Any advice? Has anyone ever experienced legal troubles with wrestling?
Well I can't give you any legal advice, but you should be heartened by the news coming out of NYC lately:

Manhattan to Stop Prosecuting Prostitution, Part of Nationwide Shift

The district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., moved to dismiss thousands of cases dating back decades, amid a growing movement to change the criminal justice system’s approach to prostitution.
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  #40  
Old 14-May-21, 17:49
FetishWebDev FetishWebDev is offline
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Default Re: Legality of sessions? (Especially NY)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Well I can't give you any legal advice, but you should be heartened by the news coming out of NYC lately:

Manhattan to Stop Prosecuting Prostitution, Part of Nationwide Shift

The district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., moved to dismiss thousands of cases dating back decades, amid a growing movement to change the criminal justice system’s approach to prostitution.
[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Baltimore is doing something similar.
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