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#431
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Re: Session rates are getting out of hand
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I have no idea how many guys do sessions, but I highly doubt there are really that many in a non-major city. There are only finitely many men spending on this stuff. Quote:
The growing wealth gap does cause problems, and this is beyond the pay grade of this board. Quote:
And they are doing better than maybe not 95% of people, but better than at least 50% or 60%. There are so many who are out of work, and don't have the looks, muscles, or wrestling skills to rely on this even for a little video work or onlyfans, let alone sessions. Many many people are struggling, many of them far worse than session wrestlers. It is possible to feel bad for more than one group of people. But unless you're far richer than even Jeff Bezos, you won't be able to support everyone. So you choose your battles. It is okay for us to feel bad for those with whom we've enjoyed time who are currently struggling. Your approach of just walking away from sessions that you deem too expensive is perfectly reasonable. Posts like this show the disdain for the women you supposedly want to support. It's just sad. Quote:
We've even seen one example in the twitter thread of someone who appears to be working far longer hours. Megan Jones is constantly on tour, and many people have guessed she's just constantly angry because she's burned out from always being on the road. No idea how much work she gets, and it's none of my business, but some people want a simple life they can enjoy, and aren't workaholics. |
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#432
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Re: Session rates are getting out of hand
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Same principle applies to session wrestlers who don't feel they're making enough because they aren't getting enough clients. |
#433
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Re: Session rates are getting out of hand
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The whingers are saying "The prices they charge are outrageous. If they lowered them, I'd get my wrestling in for less money; and, billy bonus for the wrestlers: Loads more cheapskates would come out of the woodwork and book sessions at the lower rate. What's not to love?!" The session providers could just increase their rates to earn x% more rather then lowering them; and, you have to agree, the choice of which pricing strategy to adopt belongs to the session provider alone. No amount of complaining about how expensive it is has the slightest relevance whatsoever. Last edited by London_Wrestler; 29-Oct-20 at 00:20. Reason: Punctuation to make it proper England innit. |
#434
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Re: Session rates are getting out of hand
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So, they're only getting 1-2 sessions a week, but you're arguing that they don't want to work 16 hours/day? Well, sounds like they really don't have that problem. Sounds like their problem is they don't have enough clients. Again, wonder if charging $300-500/hr has something to do with that. Again with the misogyny accusation? Look, just because you're falling in love with these women who are looking at you as nothing more than a business transaction does not mean I'm falling in love with them. I have the same attitude towards anybody (male or female) charging extremely high hourly rates and then getting upset that they're not getting enough clients -- that goes for male lawyers, therapists, trainers, photographers, etc... It's business. They do something for us so long as we pay them for it. That's it. There's no mutual emotional connection. I'm supporting them by booking sessions, but it's not my goal or obligation in life to support them, just as it's not their goal in life to support me. They're not our wives or our family members. They're self-employed ass-kicking, independent women who are willing to do a few things for us on the one condition that we pay them several hundred dollars per hour. If caring about myself more than them is misogynist, then their caring about themselves more than us would be misandrist. But that's total BS. It's got nothing to do with gender. It's business. |
#435
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Re: Session rates are getting out of hand
Lowering your price doesn't magically create new customers. It's about attracting business that would otherwise go to other girls, "stealing customers" if you want.
Looking at London, for example. I've seen prices from 150£ up to 350€ in Europe. Let's take a girl at 200£. If she decreases her price to 150£, she could: 1) attract the guy, that's usually spending more, because he realizes he can do a double session for the same price and wants to try it out. Or just session 2 hours for the same price (at 200 she's still cheaper ofc, but double/half price is probably psychological more signaling) 2) attract the guy that usually pays 100£ for escorts, because he is fine with paying 50£ more for a better quality. 3) attract the guy that visits a 200£ Domina because he's lately very into wrestling and can get a better fitting product for less. And so on. The posters before are very right saying the supply of customers is very limited. If you're the cheapest (which is 150£ here), you can fight about the guys with small budget. Just look in a supermarket: There's people buying quality because they have the money, and people buying no matter what, just needs to be the cheapest package of rice. Competition is a very important factor, that's why 20£ more or less can actually really lead to a bigger increase in work than you might expect in that case. (going bottom, from 170£ to 150£. From 250£ to 230£ has less impact, I'm sure). The girls will need to experiment with this and position themselves in the market. Some are more happy with selling a premium product (which requires more work for communication, marketing, social media presence etc) and some are happy focusing on the sessions and not do much else, resulting in having to charge less. In reality, both ways could very well lead to the same income at same time spent. What I obviously don't like (as a customer) is the increases I showed in the last post. If all girls in one place increase from 150 to 200 at the same time, that disables the competition. There's a reason why companies would get into trouble for that. In my opinion we would profit (as customers, more specific as customers looking for cheaper sessions) from transparent prices, as 1) it's easy to pick the cheapest session, which increases competition 2) girls can't charge different people different prices (not talking about travel price differences obviously) 3) harder for girls to increase prices Obviously, what's good for customers isn't good for the seller in this case, that's why most don't make their prices public. The only group of girls that would actually profit are the ones in the lower price tiers, because they could attract guys from the higher priced girls. And all would profit from having less mails, but that's not a too strong argument. The girls increasing from 150 to 200 have a very good base to compare if they're better off after that then before. If they are, the prices will stay, if no, they'll revert. Nothing we can do about that, the only thing we as customers can do is to create the mentioned transparency about prices. I know that many feel that publishing prices is not fair against the girl, but I'm not sure why you think so. They sell a service, others want to buy that service and customers should know the prices of alternatives to make a decision. Why do you think price comparison websites exist for literally everything nowadays? Last edited by Chris097; 29-Oct-20 at 01:03. |
#436
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Re: Session rates are getting out of hand
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I would bet in most cities the amount of demand at $350 is similar enough to that at $400, so they'll take the higher pay to meet clients who are (probably) more pleasant. And in either case, they'll likely have to work other jobs as well. They often work in related areas, such as video sales, webcam, modeling, etc. Some even have typical office jobs. Let's make this clear. For most of these women, the optimization goal is not to maximize income. The goal is to make a decent or good income and live an enjoyable life. Many non-Americans view our lifestyle as work-first and toxic. You are the perfect representation of that. There are similar claims of limited work from girls charging $300 and girls charging $500. This is a very small community. It's not a way to get rich. As Chris aptly said, lowering your price doesn't magically create new customers. The misogyny is in exactly what I quoted: Quote:
Last edited by uxiel; 29-Oct-20 at 01:20. |
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#437
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Re: Session rates are getting out of hand
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My friend, you seem to be incapable of objectively addressing this issue without constantly appealing to your emotions, personal politics, and your ostensible contempt for numerous aspects of American life. This thread could have been an interesting thought experiment, but you have insisted on adopting the uncompromising position that any proposal to lower the cost of sessions can be nothing more than a sexist, selfish, and contemptuous effort to undermine and lower the standard of living for these women, who you invariably perceive as the downtrodden victims suffering under the boot of an evil and oppressive American economic system. Your constant appeals to work/life balance, living standards, healthcare, coronavirus, and politics, while worthwhile topics in their own right, serve as nothing more than emotionally laden red herrings to an otherwise interesting economic discussion. Your moral preferences have no bearing on how to maximize one's wealth (regardless of whether you think this should be a priority), nor on the mechanics of supply and demand that are currently in play in the US economy whether you like them or not. I just wanted you to know that you are the reason why I stopped reading this thread. In my opinion, your heated rhetoric and general argumentative style (the majority of your posts) have contributed to making this forum less enjoyable than it once was. Stop...go make some picture contributions or something |
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#438
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Re: Session rates are getting out of hand
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#439
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Re: Session rates are getting out of hand
The issue in this thread has become either (a) I know more about the market than the wrestlers and think they should lower prices and work a lot more so they can make a little more money, or (b) you guys willing to pay $400 are ruining it for everyone else, everyone should be able to session. I recognize what a lot of people are going through. Session girls are not the only ones impacted, and they're not being oppressed by evil American economics, or whatever you think I believe. There are a lot of people going through far worse situations than session girls. It's okay to feel some sympathy for session girls, and for other people as well. It does turn out that discussion here frequently revolves around the session girls.
If $400 is too much, don't do the session. It's pretty simple. I fully support some of the complaints from the beginning of the thread, about new girls charging $500 or $700 without being proven talents. Most likely they won't last very long if they don't have the talent to back up the price. There is a feature to ignore specific users if my posts are ruining your internet experience that much. |
#440
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Re: Session rates are getting out of hand
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You're incorrectly assuming that you know how I behave when I'm in a session. If I behaved poorly towards a session wrestler, my references wouldn't check out and I wouldn't get more sessions. But that isn't the case. "For most of these women, the optimization is not to maximize income." You are in no position to speak for most or any of these women. The last session wrestler I saw (three weeks ago) said she works 80 hour weeks doing sessions, niteflirt phone chats, custom video fetish work, and anything else she can get because she wants to make as much as she can while there's a high demand for work. "You are the perfect representation of the American lifestyle as toxic." I guess that also includes the session wrestler working 80 hour weeks, huh? And anybody who works overtime, regardless of whether or not they have kids to feed, college tuition to pay, a down payment of a house to save up for, difficulty making ends meet, etc... You seem to be under the delusion that we all have plenty of money in our accounts already and therefore don't have to work that hard to get by. "Lowering your price doesn't magically create new customers." But you think keeping the price the same when you have almost no customers as it is does? Okay... You are aware that many session wrestlers on Twitter complain of guys asking them to negotiate for lower prices, right? I mean, Megan Jones is notorious for it and even did so again a few hours ago. Surely she's not the only one, which means there are obviously a lot of guys trying to negotiate with the session wrestlers because they feel the rates are too high. Many would be actual paying customers if the rates were lower. I've been told about 80% of guys contacting them are time wasters. That % might go down if their rates were lower. "The misogyny is in exactly what I quoted." I specifically did not mention anything gender specific in there. Which means you're assuming that I don't think the same of men who also charge exorbitant rates for their services, whatever it might be. I think of both the same. You just want to believe I'm misogynist so you can write my opinion off instead of acknowledging that you may not win this argument. You've tried that like 5x now. "So maybe you just have disdain for anyone who earns a high hourly rate." I earn a high hourly rate. So, wrong again. I just don't sympathize with the financial woes of those who charge what I consider unreasonably high rates, regardless of the service. And I wouldn't blame someone who charges less than I do to not sympathize with my financial problems. "This is not an office job." Dude, I'm the one that's self-employed, not you, so don't be telling me. My work situation is extremely similar to that of session wrestlers because I'm also self-employed, which means I also have no paid health insurance, paid sick leave, paid days off, or paid vacation. My work is also very physical and an injury could put me out of work for quite awhile -- and since I'm self-employed, I wouldn't qualify for unemployment benefits. There was a pretty large start-up cost to get the necessary gear I needed which meant I was operating on a loss for awhile. Clients frequently pull no-shows or last minute BS which is why I always take a deposit for every gig I get. I drive 2-3 hours a day to work 1-7 gigs per day, 6-7 days per week, and I work that much because I need the money to afford a house I'm trying to save for (the down payment and closing costs alone are $60k) on top of all the bills and business expenses I regularly incur. And one thing you clearly don't understand is that every self-employed worker regardless of profession will tell you that work can dry up at any time, which is why we always take as many gigs as possible when they're available. You work a ton in the good months so that you don't starve in the slow months -- and it's in the slow months where you relax and live your life more. The timetable for when life is lived and enjoyed is just different for self-employed workers than it is for others. "You have no sympathy for their financial problems." We are under no obligation to be sympathetic and they have never asked us to be. So why are you? Do you really think they have sympathy for your financial problems or any of ours? Because they don't. Maybe this is unfathomable to you, but they're not in this line of work because they want to make friends with strange men with weird fetishes on the internet (i.e. us). They would never give you their time if you weren't paying for it. I'm sorry, but regardless of how intimate they may get with you in a session, you're still a guy they know virtually nothing about who they are either meeting for the first time or have met a handful of times... but always for money. Any impression they give you of genuine mutual interest is so that you'll book another session and give them more business. They "like" you because you'll pay them. Unless you're personally into financial domination, I don't get why their financial situation is something you would in any way care about when they clearly don't care about yours. Their financial problems are none of your business. And if they actually try to make it important to someone they barely know, again, it's because they want you to give them more money. Last edited by mark.johnson21; 29-Oct-20 at 05:52. |
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