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  #181  
Old 30-Dec-20, 03:42
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Who are the top 5 women you would love to wrestle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackWrestleboy7i [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
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Ok so I saw the video you sent me in PM of you vs the rugby player.

So firstly, the guy looks like he's in a lot better shape than I thought. I thought he would.look more fat, but he actually looks like he has more muscle than I thought.

Secondly, I think you are way stronger and more skilled than you give credit for..he was completely on top of you pressing himself, but you were able to manoeuvre yourself out of that position.. that required strength in addition to technique, especially against someone like that.
I was not strong at all, I was weaker than 95% of guys I knew and, altough I was still stronger than the vast majority of girls, it was not that hard to find some girl bigger and more athletic than average who were stronger than me.
I was beaten in arm wrestling by some girls that were just a bit bigger, stronger and more athletic than average but were still nothing special nor very muscular if you looked at them.

In the video I didn't anything that required much strenght.
Of course you need a minimum strenght requirement to perform any action (a lever still need to be pulled, and technique is not something separated from strenght but rather the most efficient possible use of your strenght and your other physical attributes), a 10 years old kid would not be able to do what I did not matter the technique, but I can assure you that most women could do the same, let alone other men.

You have to keep in mind that many technical details are very subtle and difficult to recognize at first glance, yet they still produce an insane difference in effectiveness.
That's why many techniques can look almost the same (with an untrained observer not spotting the difference) if executed correctly or incorrectly, but the strenght needed to pull them off varies astronomically, for this reason the effects of good technique and timing are sometimes mistaken by bystanders for the effects of surpising strenght or great speed.
Just a slight change of positioning can make all the difference in the world and that's why BJJ is often described as "a game of inches".

That's also why small and weak but very committed guys usually develop better technique much faster than guys of average size and strenght, because they have to learn to do things as efficiently as possible from the start, otherwise they are not able to make anything work.
While average or above average guys can get away with missing one or two details and "forcing" through the missing pieces, ingraining bad habits, until they find a guy who is much bigger and stronger than them and then they have trouble for this reason.

Quote:
I only assume you are more experienced now.
I haven't trained in years but yes, I'm more experienced than I was at the time.

Added after 8 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
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I'd also be interested to see footage of you grappling with this big rugby player. Then I'll vocalise your fears of grappling with Sarah Backman and Dani Speegle, how and why they would defeat you at your own sport.
I'm going to gladly send it to you, but first a question, why do you speak about "fears"?
I have no fear at all, on the other hand I would be happy to lose against them, so it would be good (and arousing) news. XD
I'm not a guy who have insecurities about losing to women at all, I hope you don't get me wrong.

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 30-Dec-20 at 06:32.
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  #182  
Old 30-Dec-20, 08:55
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jiminy jiminy is offline
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Default Re: Who are the top 5 women you would love to wrestle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I'm going to gladly send it to you, but first a question, why do you speak about "fears"?
I have no fear at all, on the other hand I would be happy to lose against them, so it would be good (and arousing) news. XD
I'm not a guy who have insecurities about losing to women at all, I hope you don't misunderstand me.
Let's be honest, in the cold light of day no red-blooded male wants to lose or be seen losing to a female in a grappling match or a fight. It is inherently unsettling and shameful. Even for those that haven't sexualised it can become incredibly triggered, scarred and emotional over the concept.

We all know this. That's why you see boys unable to hide the dejected sulk when they have to stand on a podium and receive their award for 2nd or 3rd behind a cute, smiley, 1st place GIRL that just pinned and defeated them in high school wrestling.

Purely as a fantasy in your head, yes, you can say it makes you happy to think about grappling with and being beaten by a girl. And then we put it away, compartmentalise. It didn't actually happen so no harm, all good feels.

If it were to cross over into being realised it would not make us so "happy" though, just as it sure as heck isn't a happy experience for those high school boys (some 18 years old - legal adults in most countries) seen losing to 14/15 year old girls, in front of their families and knowing the match will be recorded and posted online for the world to see.

The truth is, we have sexualised something quite dark.
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  #183  
Old 30-Dec-20, 09:34
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Who are the top 5 women you would love to wrestle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Let's be honest, in the cold light of day no red-blooded male wants to lose or be seen losing to a female in a grappling match or a fight. It is inherently unsettling and shameful. Even for those that haven't sexualised it can become incredibly triggered, scarred and emotional over the concept.

We all know this. That's why you see boys unable to hide the dejected sulk when they have to stand on a podium and receive their award for 2nd or 3rd behind a cute, smiley, 1st place GIRL that just pinned and defeated them in high school wrestling.

Purely as a fantasy in your head, yes, you can say it makes you happy to think about grappling with and being beaten by a girl. And then we put it away, compartmentalise. It didn't actually happen so no harm, all good feels.

If it were to cross over into being realised it would not make us so "happy" though, just as it sure as heck isn't a happy experience for those high school boys (some 18 years old - legal adults in most countries) seen losing to 14/15 year old girls, in front of their families and knowing the match will be recorded and posted online for the world to see.

The truth is, we have sexualised something quite dark.
Losing in your head as a fantasy or losing in public and being posted online are not the only two possibilities tough, there is plenty of middle ground. XD

Yes, losing in public in front of strangers to a woman would be extremely unconfortable and unsettling for me, due to the general public bias that if a man lose to a woman it must always be because it's him who is exceptionally weak and inept and not her who is strong and capable, because they are scared to think that they could be in his place and lose to her too (altough I would argue that this perception would be mitigated a little with women like Sarah Backman and such who are more than twice as muscular than me, and more muscular than most men).
I would hate it.

However I would have no problem at all in losing to them in private, or even in front of a restricted group of friends and of people I have trained/grappled with that already know my abilities.
That's because I'm aware that I'm definitely way above the average of the male population in fighting prowess and confident of it, so if a woman beat me it doesn't reflect poorly on me but good on her (eg. it doesn't mean I'm weak, but that she is very good or very strong and should be praised), and of course the people I have either grappled with or fought with also know it.

When I fantasize about grappling with a super strong woman I fantasize about doing so in an intimate and private environment, not in front of other people.

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 30-Dec-20 at 10:22.
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  #184  
Old 30-Dec-20, 10:09
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Grapluc Grapluc is offline
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Default Re: Who are the top 5 women you would love to wrestle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Let's be honest, in the cold light of day no red-blooded male wants to lose or be seen losing to a female in a grappling match or a fight. It is inherently unsettling and shameful. Even for those that haven't sexualised it can become incredibly triggered, scarred and emotional over the concept.
I'm deeply sorry for you if that's how you feel about it, but I guarantee you there are many men who do not have this issue. Those teenagers you mention would probably not be so anxious about losing to a girl if some adults didn't view it as the end of the world.
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  #185  
Old 30-Dec-20, 11:19
Nico999 Nico999 is offline
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Default Re: Who are the top 5 women you would love to wrestle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grapluc [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I'm deeply sorry for you if that's how you feel about it, but I guarantee you there are many men who do not have this issue. Those teenagers you mention would probably not be so anxious about losing to a girl if some adults didn't view it as the end of the world.
Yep. Losing to a girl can be a bit humiliating and exciting but nothing that dark at all.

So back to the topic, I 'd like to wrestle:
Orsi B
Tia
Lara Alphacatz
Robi IFW
Eva Manchester
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  #186  
Old 30-Dec-20, 18:01
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jiminy jiminy is offline
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Default Re: Who are the top 5 women you would love to wrestle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Yes, losing in public in front of strangers to a woman would be extremely unconfortable and unsettling for me, due to the general public bias that if a man lose to a woman it must always be because it's him who is exceptionally weak and inept and not her who is strong and capable, because they are scared to think that they could be in his place and lose to her too (altough I would argue that this perception would be mitigated a little with women like Sarah Backman and such who are more than twice as muscular than me, and more muscular than most men).
I would hate it.
Your own words, not anyone else... You and I know that feeling doesn't completely go away on the stipulation that you make it private. It just makes it more acceptable and packageable as a thought in your head. As men we have egos - normal, healthy egos. That is normal and we want to uphold them.

I understand completely why the fantasy of having other hot women like Amber Heard or Margot Robbie render your BJJ skills useless does not hold the same appeal.

Also why the fantasy of losing to a more skilled female BJJ player doesn't hold the same appeal.

In the former, you can't suspend your disbelief and in the latter there is an obvious and valid excuse. It doesn't cut into our male psyche as much, which is the true high we are looking for.

InTheFlesh was spot on when he said there are, broadly speaking, 2 kinds of people on this forum.

1. Those that see mixed wrestling and femdom (face-sitting, head scissoring, etc) as very erotic in nature - sexual foreplay - allowing themselves to be put in holds and drawing stimulation from the experience itself.

2. Those that have sexualised the psychological ramifications of losing a serious physical contest to a woman; a wrestling match, a fight, etc.

Testament to this, @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] and i have both been on this forum for 8 years but to my off-the-cuff knowledge have never interacted until now. He can probably look at my posts and find them uninteresting and of no value and that's cool, we are just in different lanes. He's probably into his sessions and asking girls to put him in holds but that's not what we come on here to talk about. That doesn't work for us. You quote me saying I'm describing your fantasies and we often pop up in the same threads discussing whether women can really beat men in a strictly sporting manner and that's because we are more alike in this fetish. It doesn't happen by accident. Like attracts like.

About that vid - I would be interested to know if I interpret it the same way as Jack-Wrestler. Either I'm thinking you're selling yourself very short describing yourself as a "very small, weak and unathletic guy with just a bit of jiu-jitsu knowledge" or I'm inclined to think the big rugby guy was very slow, unathletic and cumbersome. You may have had a huge athleticism advantage in terms of agility, speed, reflex and flexibility advantage in addition to more mat time and knowledge.

When it's 1-on-1 it's not like running or weight lifting where you can observe data and stats to assess someone, everything is relevant to the individuals involved.
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  #187  
Old 30-Dec-20, 18:08
Garri Garri is offline
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Default Re: Who are the top 5 women you would love to wrestle?

A mix of retired and unretired, no particular order:

Dez Desire
Doughdee Marie
Colette Nelson
Warrior Amazon
Brigitta Brezovac

so help me God
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  #188  
Old 30-Dec-20, 21:33
bizyz bizyz is offline
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Default Re: Who are the top 5 women you would love to wrestle?

Rosie O'Donnell
Ellen Degeneres
My favorite TV dykes.Would like to see them go against each other.
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  #189  
Old 30-Dec-20, 21:43
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Who are the top 5 women you would love to wrestle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Your own words, not anyone else... You and I know that feeling doesn't completely go away on the stipulation that you make it private. It just makes it more acceptable and packageable as a thought in your head. As men we have egos - normal, healthy egos. That is normal and we want to uphold them.
I tend to disagree about this part, I have lost to trained women in private and I have also lost a bunch of times to regular women in strenght contest (such as arm wrestling), including an ex girlfriends, and it didn't bothered me, as a matter of fact I enjoyed being overpowered by them in arm wrestling (while I didn't enjoy losing to trained women but it didn't bother me particularly, no more than losing to a guy at least).
I know you are saying that losing in actual grappling match or fight against an unskilled girl would be worse and that I would feel uncomfortable even it was private, but I'm pretty sure that as long as its private I would just enjoy it.

I have already explained why I would not perceive it as a blow to my ego, it would just mean that she is exceptionally strong/ athletic, not that I'm a bad fighter compared to the majority of the population, since I already know from experience that I can beat most males.
And my ego is perfectly content with just being above the average of the male population fighting wise, I don't need anymore than that.
What you are describing would probably happen if I were untrained and was unsure of where I stand for compared to other guys.
Of course I concede that I can't be 100% sure of how I would feel until it happens, maybe I would be surprised by my own reaction in the heat of the moment, who knows.

Quote:
About that vid - I would be interested to know if I interpret it the same way as Jack-Wrestler. Either I'm thinking you're selling yourself very short describing yourself as a "very small, weak and unathletic guy with just a bit of jiu-jitsu knowledge" or I'm inclined to think the big rugby guy was very slow, unathletic and cumbersome. You may have had a huge athleticism advantage in terms of agility, speed, reflex and flexibility advantage in addition to more mat time and knowledge.
I'm not selling myself short at all lol

Said that, if you want to have a better picture/undestanding of where I stand for abilities-wise I can also send other videos where I grappled with other people, including stronger and fit/athletic guys, and even with girls stronger than me. XD
I can also send you more videos of the rugby guy wrestling with other people if you feel like it may help you give a more accurate judgement.

As a matter of fact I don't think this video of me versus the rugby player by itself is representative of anything at all, since you can't judge too much from a single and very brief match that happened many years ago, it's probably going to just mislead you.
I offered to send it just because it came up in the discussion and Jack the wrestler seemed interested in the subject having been in a rugby team himself, and also just in case to avoid risking looking like someone who was making it up (I could not blame someone if the suspected it, since unfortunately in this forum it's not uncommon to have people post blatantly fake stories and selling them as real, so being skeptic is natural)

By the way I have a curiosity, do you have any combat sport experience?

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 30-Dec-20 at 22:07.
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  #190  
Old 30-Dec-20, 23:12
Ryan Futuristics Ryan Futuristics is offline
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Default Re: Who are the top 5 women you would love to wrestle?

Kiki Vhyce

5'10 and 200lbs off season .. Squats for sets of 10 at 140kg (309lbs), deep, slow and perfect form.

One of the rare things I think we underestimate with girls is how much they focus on squats and DLs – which are real full-body power exercises .. I used to grapple with rivals at school, who like me were always in the weights room, benching and shoulder pressing .. But there's a different strength you get from ppl built like tanks who can squat and DL a lot – especially in higher rep ranges .. Those exercise build strength right from the arm, posterior chain, glutes to hamstrings to calves .. There's no weak link – just a body built to push and lift .. Takes tonnes of cardio too .. So, more than most, as a 6'1 200lb guy, I think Kiki Vhyce would feel like you were a child grappling with a fully grown adult

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