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View Poll Results: What will be the outcome of this session?
InTheFlesh86 will win Part 1, but lose Part 2. 3 4.05%
InTheFlesh86 will win Part 2, but lose Part 1. 4 5.41%
InTheFlesh86 will win both Part 1 and Part 2 (most likely). 15 20.27%
InTheFlesh86 will lose both Part 1 and Part 2 (<1% chance). 12 16.22%
I want Dez to make InTheFlesh86 cry. 40 54.05%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 04-Jul-20, 03:09
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Dez Desire vs Me

All my life I have stood idly by and watched many of my fellow men tossed to and fro, choked, pinned and humiliated by beautiful women and wondered, “Yeah, but what if she went up against ME? Certainly there has to be a limit as to what degree of size and strength can be overcome by grappling skill, right?” For years I speculated, built up my body, and wondered what I would do if I ever came face to face with a strong and skilled woman. Would I react like [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register], or would it be more like [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]?

Well now, at age 33, I can finally say that the wait is over--the stars have aligned, and the time has come for me to have my first, and quite possibly my only, real-life session. I have made contact with a powerful woman known as Dez Desire (who seems great by the way) and the two of us will square off August 22nd, on Dez’s home turf in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA.



Here‘s the agenda we’ve planned --

Part 1 - Submission Challenge (~30 min) -- To start things off, Dez will put me in a variety of holds, and I will show her how easy it is for a real man to muscle out of them! To raise the stakes, I have given Dez the creative license to force me to make embarrassing admissions to her before she’ll let me go, in the unlikely event I’m unable to escape. Things like: “I admit that women can be just as strong as men”, “I admit that right now a woman could end my life”, “I admit that a woman’s skill beats a man’s strength”, “I apologize to women for my male ego” etc. I will be trying as hard as I can to leverage my gym-bro 6’4’’ 255lbs body to get out of these holds (barring any unsafe or inappropriate behavior of course).

Part 2 - Grappling Experiment (~15 min) -- After that, Dez and I will face off in the ultimate display of manly size and strength against womanly skill and experience! This will be less of a formal 'match' and more of an 'experiment' in that I won’t be trying to submit Dez, rather I’ll try to avoid being submitted by her while remaining in control throughout.

Part 3 - Lesson (~15 min) -- Finally, Dez has graciously agreed to spend the time we have left teaching my wife some holds that she can use on me! I told my wife she can write up a list of all the things I do that annoy her and all the things she wants from me, and if she can get me in a hold that I can’t get out of, I will agree to one item from her list before she lets me go.

Over the next several weeks I’ll be posting status updates and any new developments to this thread. I will also be eating and lifting much more consistently to try to get back to something approaching what I used to be.


Place your bets now! How is this going to go down?




Last edited by InTheFlesh86; 31-Jul-20 at 19:01.
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  #2  
Old 04-Jul-20, 06:54
RNC RNC is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Given the agenda, I think you'll do badly. I think Dez will do well.

Part 1 - Submission Challenge
If Dez can't submit you when you let her put you in holds, that is proof that jiu-jitsu (or whatever martial arts she uses) doesn't work. And I'm pretty sure that martial arts do work. I think you'll be tapping and saying whatever she wants you to say.

Risk: The main risk (in terms of your enjoyment) that I would see in part 1 is you being too prescriptive in what Dez is to say to you when she has you at her mercy.

A bit of a tangent... but I remember one time I asked a wrestler in the pre-session emails to insult me about my skinny arms during the session. I thought going into the session that I'd be humiliated by that, as I genuinely am self-conscious about my skinny arms in real-life. But when she said it, my only thought was "you pay attention to pre-session emails". There was no humiliation. She did it great as well. She was feeling my bicep as we wrestled and laughing about its size. Unfortunately, as good as she pulled it off, it did nothing for me humiliation-wise as I had specifically asked for it.

I know that Dez making you say things is a bit different than asking a session wrestler to say humiliating things - but I much prefer the "make me say stuff" instruction than the "make me say X specifically" instruction. I remember Venom saying "compliment me" when she had me in her triangle and then when I said something (embarrassingly bland) like "you're beautiful", she'd say "you have to do better than that - make it original" and kept me in her triangle. It was scary trying to come up with something original on the spot. Hopefully Dez can put you under pressure like that.

Part 2 - Grappling Experiment
This is essentially the ruleset for most of my sessions - except that I don't tell the girl that I am only going to defend. If she wins, I want her to think that she won when I was trying to win as well. I do my best to defend but if there are openings (e.g. for me to apply a choke), I don't take them.

You'll have a better chance here than in part 1 (you've no chance in part 1) but I think you'll find it difficult. I think only defending is more difficult than attacking and defending.

Part 3 - Lesson
This will be interesting but I think your wife will find it tough to pick much up in 15 minutes. Learning from scratch is tough. You might be better off focusing on one hold. I'd suggest a triangle as, once you are in that, it's pretty much game over.

You'll have a great time for sure anyway.
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  #3  
Old 04-Jul-20, 08:24
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by RNC [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Risk: The main risk (in terms of your enjoyment) that I would see in part 1 is you being too prescriptive in what Dez is to say to you when she has you at her mercy.
I think this is actually really good advice and I think I'm going to take you up on that. As I've mentally rehearsed various scenarios, I think I've become more 'comfortable' with the idea that I might not be able to escape some holds, and I think that's largely because I've stuck to the same script. So with that in mind, maybe making things less predictable would be more effective (and terrifying).

In my email to Dez, I did tell her to "feel free to be creative", so hopefully she'll take that to heart.
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Old 04-Jul-20, 07:26
ssddfaudhey ssddfaudhey is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

All I'm gonna say is check you ego at the door lol Your size won't matter when you're in a triangle choke or RNC lol
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Old 04-Jul-20, 08:30
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

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Originally Posted by ssddfaudhey [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
All I'm gonna say is check you ego at the door lol Your size won't matter when you're in a triangle choke or RNC lol
RNC is going to be hard, but I'm convinced I can get out of a triangle, especially from a girl.
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Old 04-Jul-20, 10:19
RNC RNC is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
RNC is going to be hard, but I'm convinced I can get out of a triangle, especially from a girl.
I would think that triangles are seen as more secure and more difficult to escape than RNCs. It might just be because legs are stronger than arms. But I also think that more can go wrong in a RNC technique-wise, e.g. in a RNC you can pry at her arms if they aren't correctly locked up, you can rotate your body, etc. I find it more difficult to wriggle my way out of a triangle - but maybe that's just me!
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Old 04-Jul-20, 19:34
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Thanks, I was hoping someone would ask me about that!

It's just not that interesting to me to be honest. I don't know jujitsu or any martial art, so naturally I'm not familiar with those techniques for inflicting damage upon my opponent. If I were going to try to hurt someone in a fight, I would likely resort to the same kinds of basic human tactics that most untrained people would--Punching, kicking, stomping, choking, biting, gouging, pulling hair, low blows etc. Those are the offensive techniques I have at my disposal, and they're all ruled out by the rules of BJJ/Judo etc. So by engaging in a BJJ contest with someone trained in BJJ, I don't have any greater chance of winning than someone who doesn't know how to hold a tennis racket has against someone who plays tennis. As a sport, I simply don't know the rules of the game, so rather than flounder around and aimlessly flail my arms in my opponent's face and wait to get caught in an arm-bar or a triangle, I'd rather just focus on defending/controlling. Depending on how difficult that is, I might be able to make an educated guess as to how a "real fight" would go.
There are plenty of istinctive and intuitive things that an untrained guy could do to try to win in a grappling match against trained in BJJ.
You can try to grab their head in an headlock or in a guillotine, get on top of her and push you forearm on their throat, grab their arm and twist it behind their back with brute strenght, get behind her and apply a rudimental rear naked choke etc...all things that would actually work if you the strenght difference is big enough, they are basically the epitome of "much bigger and stronger person bullies much weaker and therefore helpless one".

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Depending on how difficult that is, I might be able to make an educated guess as to how a "real fight" would go.
Actually no, it would not, it would be extremely misleading for making and educated guess about an actual fight.

Some of the main principles of BJJ about fighting much heavier and stronger opponent in a real fight are:

-Be patient and conserve energy while making the big guy tired, since the more he is tired the smaller is strenght advantage become.
In a fight a big guy who is attacking aggressive with strenght and no technique will tire out very fast, what the big guy has to do is grab him and stay close to not give the space to strike him and act in an efficient way that would preserve his energy.

As a part of the strategy, when a big guy is on top of the BJJ, the goal is not to escape as fast as possible explosively burning and wasting energy, but to chill, be calm and patient, make sure you are protected and then wait for the best moment to escape.
"if he is controlling you, that's absolutely no problem as long as he is not submitting you, he has to attack sooner or later, and then he would give you the space to make your move"

Those are words from elite BJJ guys such as te Gracie's, not just mine, if you don't trust me.

It's an extremely common scenario (both in grappling challenges and real fights) for an untrained much bigger guy to spent a lot of time on top of a BJJ guy thinking that he is winning and dominating, while in reality he is right on his trap and he end up being submitted without even realizing how it happened.

So with a 15 minutes limit where you are just defending and try to control it would be the other way around, she would be the one forced by the rules to be aggressive and in a hurry, waste energy etc....in a way a good BJJ practitioner would not otherwise, and I can see you be on top of her for a while and doing nothing, time rans out and you go home thinking that you have won while if you tried to attack she would have turned the table on you, meaning she was not actually in trouble and at a disadvantage.

I think that you being aggressive and trying to attack and win would be way closer to the dynamics of a real fight.

And by the way, why the submission challenges are 30 minutes and the grappling match just 15?
It make more sense to do the opposite in my opinion, it should not take much time to cycle through a series of submission to see if you can escape or not, while the longer the grappling match is the more realiable it result would be (the longer it is, the more likely is that you get tired and she outlast you, or that you make a mistake and she capitalize etc....)




Quote:
In short, I think these popular videos of big guys losing to small guys in BJJ are very misleading and actually not that interesting. That is not to say that in a real fight the outcome would always be different, but sometimes it would.
I'm not sure, but are you referring to the Royce vs Shamrock matches that I mentioned?
Because those were no rules fights, not BJJ matches.

Quote:
And the funny thing is, this isn't unique to BJJ! Take any bigger, stronger, more athletic person and put him up against a small girl in anything that she's skilled in and that he's never done and she'll have a good chance of winning. Duh!
That's untrue, the gap between untrained bigger, stronger and more athletic man and trained females differ immensely based on the activity, in some the gap in insourmountable and in other is not.
in BJJ is completely different than in Boxing which is completely different than Football which is completely different than Weightlifting which is completely different than Ping Pong.
BJJ is by far one where the gap is smaller that I can think of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RNC [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I would think that triangles are seen as more secure and more difficult to escape than RNCs. It might just be because legs are stronger than arms. But I also think that more can go wrong in a RNC technique-wise, e.g. in a RNC you can pry at her arms if they aren't correctly locked up, you can rotate your body, etc. I find it more difficult to wriggle my way out of a triangle - but maybe that's just me!
Do you have any BJJ training out of curiosity?
Because it's extremely easier to power out from a triangle then from a rear naked choke fom a well built guy with a 100 lbs advantage, a lot of times with such a size difference you can't even lock the triangle properly.
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Old 04-Jul-20, 19:49
RNC RNC is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

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Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Do you have any BJJ training out of curiosity?
Because it's extremely easier to power out from a triangle then from a rear naked choke fom a well built guy with a 100 lbs advantage, a lot of times with such a size difference you can't even lock the triangle properly.
No, I've no training at all. I was just going by personal experience (personal experience of figuring things out myself during sessions). That's interesting though. I've always had more trouble in triangles - but that must be just me (a gap in my skills) so. Thanks for the info. I'll try power out next time so!
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Old 04-Jul-20, 21:36
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
There are plenty of istinctive and intuitive things that an untrained guy could do to try to win in a grappling match against trained in BJJ.
You can try to grab their head in an headlock or in a guillotine, get on top of her and push you forearm on their throat, grab their arm and twist it behind their back with brute strenght, get behind her and apply a rudimental rear naked choke etc...all things that would actually work if you the strenght difference is big enough, they are basically the epitome of "much bigger and stronger person bullies much weaker and therefore helpless one".
There may be a couple things they could do, but most of what you mentioned are just variations of a headlock. I think the fact remains that 80%+ of an untrained person's offensive repertoire will be unavailable to him given a BJJ ruleset. Again, I'm not making the "BJJ doesn't work in a street fight" argument here. The BJJ guy may very well still win in a no rules fight, but we should at least be able to agree that the restrictions imposed by BJJ rules disproportionately affect the untrained fighter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Some of the main principles of BJJ about fighting much heavier and stronger opponent in a real fight are:

-Be patient and conserve energy while making the big guy tired, since the more he is tired the smaller is strenght advantage become.
In a fight a big guy who is attacking aggressive with strenght and no technique will tire out very fast, what the big guy has to do is grab him and stay close to not give the space to strike him and act in an efficient way that would preserve his energy.

As a part of the strategy, when a big guy is on top of the BJJ, the goal is not to escape as fast as possible explosively burning and wasting energy, but to chill, be calm and patient, make sure you are protected and then wait for the best moment to escape.
"if he is controlling you, that's absolutely no problem as long as he is not submitting you, he has to attack sooner or later, and then he would give you the space to make your move"

Those are words from elite BJJ guys such as te Gracie's, not just mine, if you don't trust me.

It's an extremely common scenario (both in grappling challenges and real fights) for an untrained much bigger guy to spent a lot of time on top of a BJJ guy thinking that he is winning and dominating, while in reality he is right on his trap and he end up being submitted without even realizing how it happened.

So with a 15 minutes limit where you are just defending and try to control it would be the other way around, she would be the one forced by the rules to be aggressive and in a hurry, waste energy etc....in a way a good BJJ practitioner would not otherwise, and I can see you be on top of her for a while and doing nothing, time rans out and you go home thinking that you have won while if you tried to attack she would have turned the table on you, meaning she was not actually in trouble and at a disadvantage.
Haha! So what I hear you saying is that my strategy is a lot smarter and more effective than the average dummy who goes charging into something he doesn't understand!

I mean, I agree with you that my approach will give me a better chance at success. Where we disagree is the extent to which this approach resembles a real fight. What you say is true, 'if' I were to attack, I would be much more vulnerable to a counterattack from her than I would otherwise. But again, the way I would go about attacking in a BJJ match is far different than what I would do in a life/death fight. You might be pleased to hear me say this: I concede that I would lose to Dez (or any BJJ practitioner) in a BJJ competition! But because I don't practice BJJ, I'm not particularly interested in that. What I'd really like to know is whether a woman who knows BJJ could literally walk up to me and end my life without me being able to do anything about it. Granted, there's no way to actually test this, but my thought/hope was that just trying to defend/control would at least give me a feel for what it might be like. Emphasis on "control" by the way, which will involve me being the aggressor to some extent. Of course I could technically avoid getting submitted by just running around the cage the whole time, haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
And by the way, why the submission challenges are 30 minutes and the grappling match just 15?
It make more sense to do the opposite in my opinion, it should not take much time to cycle through a series of submission to see if you can escape or not, while the longer the grappling match is the more realiable it result would be (the longer it is, the more likely is that you get tired and she outlast you, or that you make a mistake and she capitalize etc....)
Those times are just estimates. If part 1 gets finished sooner, then we'll have more time for grappling. How long part 1 takes will depend on how long Dez decides to hold me in place in the event I can't escape. I'm very serious about the "male ego therapy" thing actually. I think it's going to take me awhile to admit whatever she asks me to say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
That's untrue, the gap between untrained bigger, stronger and more athletic man and trained females differ immensely based on the activity, in some the gap in insourmountable and in other is not.
in BJJ is completely different than in Boxing which is completely different than Football which is completely different than Weightlifting which is completely different than Ping Pong.
BJJ is by far one where the gap is smaller that I can think of.
Haha oh c'mon! Lebron James himself would lose to any 16 year old girl who was skilled in: Bowling, tennis, swimming, pool, racquetball, gymnastics, archery, volleyball, softball and plenty of others.

And hey I'm not knocking BJJ here by the way. I take it very seriously, and while I think it's probably more closely correlated to a 'real fight' than most disciplines, it's not "literally exactly the same" like a lot people (not necessarily you) seem to imply!
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Old 04-Jul-20, 11:27
ssddfaudhey ssddfaudhey is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
RNC is going to be hard, but I'm convinced I can get out of a triangle, especially from a girl.
Lmao ok let us know how that goes.Ive been in triangles from 100lb girl that I had to tap in seconds.Its not about streangth,once its locked you tap or you nap.
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