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View Poll Results: When buying a competitive mixed match, do you want to know the outcome in advance?
Yes 91 57.96%
No 42 26.75%
I don't buy videos 24 15.29%
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 25-Mar-20, 19:58
Absolute Mixed Wrestling Absolute Mixed Wrestling is offline
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Default Re: The Competitive Mixed Wrestling Dilemma

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Originally Posted by urban warrior [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Right? I've seen matches where the Spoiler had more than 40lbs on his female opponent. That would be a virtually insurmountable size-difference in a fight between two people of the same sex, nevermind man-vs-woman where size and weight matter even more. To call his fights "competitive" is almost laughable; real sports have weight classes for a reason.

I'm going to quote this particular post, but I'm responding to ALL the posts here that share this generalized sentiment:

A bigger fighter should always win.

Sorry, that's just not correct.

Wrestling (as one athletic example) isn't JUST about size. And it's not JUST about gender. If you think it is, that's okay, but your position is under-informed.

Absolute Mixed Wrestling is named after the 'Absolute' Division at BJJ tournaments. And the way it works is that, after everyone competes in their respective categories (i.e. say 'Brown Belts' competing at 185 lbs.) then people, usually the winners of the all the various divisions, are able to compete in the Absolute Division, where there are no weight classes AND no belt rank divisions.

This is a thing that happens OFTEN at real BJJ tournaments out in the world. And, no, the biggest, strongest Black Belt does not always win.

If you happen to be a fan of MMA, and you recall the large Japan-based promotion called PRIDE FC - they used to have an annual tournament that was 'open-weight' which meant that you'd see Heavyweights fighting Lightweights and so on and so forth. And, again, the Heavyweights did not always win.

If you recall the very first UFC (UFC 1), Royce Gracie beat all his opponents, regardless of their size and regardless of their fighting style or experience.

So if you're still of the belief that size and strength are all that matter, I'm sorry to say, you're wrong.

At Absolute Mixed Wrestling, our matches are 25 minutes of non-stop action. That means cardio plays a HUGE part in every match. And The Spoiler is a big, and strong guy, no doubt. But he doesn't exactly have stellar cardio. And if you watch UFC (again just as an example, I'm not comparing Absolute Mixed Wrestling directly to the UFC in terms of skill or anything) then you can see how gassed out the Heavyweight fighters get when they fight. And those are fights that have minute-long breaks between rounds!

So, yeah, now its strength AND size AND stamina that influence a particular match's outcome.

Oh, but what about skill? Right...there's that, too!

The Spoiler is a BJJ purple belt. So he's good. But he's not a black belt. He's not even a brown belt. And, on top of that, Absolute Mixed Wrestling isn't even a BJJ tournament - it's submission wrestling. That particular point aside, there are plenty of examples from the real world that you can find where people of a certain belt lose to fighters of a lower belt. Sure, it doesn't happen all the time. But it does happen.

Even when both fighters are the exact same size and are considered the best in the world (think McGregor vs. Aldo), one fighter can still completely destroy the other extremely fast. I mean, nobody saw that particular knockout coming! Sure, McGregor will tell you he did. LOL. But nobody else in MMA predicted that. Does the fact that McGregor knocked Aldo out with one punch inside of 15 seconds or whatever it was make it NOT a competitive fight? Of course not. But it sure was one-sided, right? So having everything exactly balanced doesn't actually mean much. In fact, in the boxing / MMA world the weight classes are primarily for safety, because a heavier fighter can generate way more destructive power with a punch to the head than a lighter fighter can (even though a lighter fighter can still knock a heavier fighter out). Good thing we're talking wrestling though, right? Where that sort of thing doesn't really factor in.

So...now its strength AND size AND stamina AND skill that influence a particular match's outcome.

What about the rules? Oh, shoot, we forgot about the rules!

I already mentioned the fact that the 25-minutes of non-stop wrestling is exhausting (ask any of the female fighters we've worked with, even the top ones like VeVe or Ariel or Sheena). Don't believe them or me? Join a BJJ gym and try rolling with someone who's just a blue belt for a few minutes and let us all know how tired you got and how fast it happened.

On top of that, we don't require fighters to 'reset' after each submission. That means when someone scores a submission, they just have to break the hold and they can immediately attack regardless of whether their opponent is ready or not. Think about that when you're 15 minutes into a gruelling competitive match, and you're starting to gas out, and your opponent taps you out but you STILL can't get a moment to catch your breath because they're on you again.

Then, of course, we allow plenty of things that you won't see at a BJJ tournament (like smothering, hand-on-throat choking, many of The Spoiler's opponent's abuse the no-ref aspect by grabbing and pulling his mask to control his head and torque his neck - trying fighting with that handicap sometime! - and body-striking) but we also DO NOT allow things that might benefit a guy like The Spoiler. For instance, our matches are ground-based, primarily for safety, which means The Spoiler can't pick anyone up and slam them. I mean, let's be real here, if he were allowed to do that then most of his matches would end very quickly. But also, probably, with his opponent being injured. And nobody wants to see anyone get injured (which is why we also don't allow things like heel-hooks, ankle locks and knee-bars).

So, right, it's size AND strength AND stamina AND skill AND the match rules that all play an important part in a match's outcome. And there are even more aspects to it than that (like, how sharp are a fighter's skills / how hard have they been training leading up to the fight, or are they nursing an injury that occurred recently, are they properly rested, did they get a full night's sleep and so on. I mean, I'm not even kidding, it's a long list of things that factor into the results of a competition to varying degrees).

I mean, if you still think our matches aren't competitive after reading all that AND having seen a match, then nothing is going to change your mind except, as I mentioned, going to a BJJ gym and seeing how hard even light rolling during a BJJ class is!

Finally, the entire point of competition (both people, or both teams, trying their best to win within the rules) is that the outcome is in doubt until it's over. Even when, on paper, it doesn't seem like it should be. You pay your ticket to cheer for your favourite team, and even if they're amazing, sometimes they lose. That's how actual competition is. For example, I was massive Chicago Bulls fan during Michael Jordan's prime. That was one of the greatest teams EVER. And they still lost sometimes. But that's why the competitions are held - because you don't know the outcome until the competitors face off and the final buzzer sounds. You either love that aspect of sport. Or you don't. If you don't, that's okay. But that's the nature of actual competition. I honestly can't recall ever having said, well, I only want to watch tonight's game if I know for sure that the Bulls win.

Anyhow, I don't mean to rant. I definitely appreciate that everyone has their preferences. And their opinions. But I have come around to the insight that often people who are adamant that a smaller woman can't beat a bigger man (therefore, if she does, the match MUST NOT be truly competitive) aren't really concerned with the competition, they're primarily concerned with watching something that reinforces the validity of their specific fetish (which, and this is completely anecdotal and not scientifically proven of course, is they would just rather see the girl win by defeating a smaller and less skilled male). And that's totally okay, too!

Anyhow, enough about The Spoiler. If you look at the Fighter Profiles section of our site, there are matches with other male wrestlers of various sizes and skill levels. Of course, the female fighters we work with come in different sizes, too (different heights, different weight classes, different skill levels) but nobody ever seems too concerned when it's a match featuring a 180 lbs. female bodybuilder vs. a 130 lbs. female BJJ blue belt and the smaller fighter happens to win. I wonder why that is?!

I get it. We all like different things. You don't have to like the things we like. And vice-versa. But don't knock them simply because they're not your thing. I see people say 'well, if they did X, Y or Z then I would buy their videos' (and they're not just saying that about Absolute Mixed Wrestling, I see that same sentiment about other producers or other genres etc.) but the fact of the matter is that we never created Absolute Mixed Wrestling to appeal to everyone. We do 100% competitive wrestling, like the banner at the top of our site says, with no weight classes and no gender divisions. We don't do any fantasy or scripted stuff. And we don't even offer customs. Think about that. We get offers all the time to shoot non-competitive customs. But we politely say no, thank you. We turn down the opportunity to make extra money because we only film competitive matches.

We do that, and only that, because that's what we like (to all the various posters here who, correctly, pointed out that, at the end of the day, we want to watch something that excites us). And if you happen to like that same thing, great, then we're the site for you. If you happen to like something else, awesome, there's a site that's just right for you out there, too.

The internet is full of things. There are enough things to go around. Find the thing you love, and enjoy that thing. And if you can't find it, make it.

Fan of Absolute Mixed Wrestling or otherwise, we genuinely want you be happy. We all deserve to be.

Cheers, everyone.

Last edited by Absolute Mixed Wrestling; 25-Mar-20 at 21:09.
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  #52  
Old 25-Mar-20, 20:48
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: The Competitive Mixed Wrestling Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by urban warrior [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
So I was reading up on the competitive mixed wrestling tourney over on Fight Pulse (great site btw), and got to thinking about an old dilemma of mine. I'm wondering if anybody else has this same problem when it comes to competitive mixed wrestling.

On the one hand, real competitive mixed wrestling is definitely fun and I'm a fan of it. But on the other hand, I'm not gonna pay for anything where the guy might potentially win - that'd be a waste of money for me. Like most people (I assume), I'm watching this as fetish/kink material, not as some kind of sporting event like boxing or MMA, so the suspense of not knowing who will win isn't necessarily a draw for me. And since I'm not into guys winning (at least not enough to pay for it), I can't ever bring myself to risk buying anything where the producers don't offer spoilers.

It's a bit of a conundrum for me. Does anybody else out there have this problem? I'm just curious.


DWW usually tells you up-front how the match went, such as when Emanuella took on Dorian:

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  #53  
Old 25-Mar-20, 20:55
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brsimmons brsimmons is offline
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Default Re: The Competitive Mixed Wrestling Dilemma

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Originally Posted by Zidéry [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
What is the link for these two videos please ?
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Here are a couple more, really as good as the two above and with the same girls.

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  #54  
Old 25-Mar-20, 20:57
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: The Competitive Mixed Wrestling Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by urban warrior [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Right? I've seen matches where the Spoiler had more than 40lbs on his female opponent. That would be a virtually insurmountable size-difference in a fight between two people of the same sex
Yeah, sure

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  #55  
Old 25-Mar-20, 22:26
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: The Competitive Mixed Wrestling Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute Mixed Wrestling [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I'm going to quote this particular post, but I'm responding to ALL the posts here that share this generalized sentiment:

A bigger fighter should always win.

Sorry, that's just not correct.

Wrestling (as one athletic example) isn't JUST about size. And it's not JUST about gender. If you think it is, that's okay, but your position is under-informed.

Absolute Mixed Wrestling is named after the 'Absolute' Division at BJJ tournaments. And the way it works is that, after everyone competes in their respective categories (i.e. say 'Brown Belts' competing at 185 lbs.) then people, usually the winners of the all the various divisions, are able to compete in the Absolute Division, where there are no weight classes AND no belt rank divisions.

This is a thing that happens OFTEN at real BJJ tournaments out in the world. And, no, the biggest, strongest Black Belt does not always win.

If you happen to be a fan of MMA, and you recall the large Japan-based promotion called PRIDE FC - they used to have an annual tournament that was 'open-weight' which meant that you'd see Heavyweights fighting Lightweights and so on and so forth. And, again, the Heavyweights did not always win.

If you recall the very first UFC (UFC 1), Royce Gracie beat all his opponents, regardless of their size and regardless of their fighting style or experience.

So if you're still of the belief that size and strength are all that matter, I'm sorry to say, you're wrong.

At Absolute Mixed Wrestling, our matches are 25 minutes of non-stop action. That means cardio plays a HUGE part in every match. And The Spoiler is a big, and strong guy, no doubt. But he doesn't exactly have stellar cardio. And if you watch UFC (again just as an example, I'm not comparing Absolute Mixed Wrestling directly to the UFC in terms of skill or anything) then you can see how gassed out the Heavyweight fighters get when they fight. And those are fights that have minute-long breaks between rounds!

So, yeah, now its strength AND size AND stamina that influence a particular match's outcome.

Oh, but what about skill? Right...there's that, too!

The Spoiler is a BJJ purple belt. So he's good. But he's not a black belt. He's not even a brown belt. And, on top of that, Absolute Mixed Wrestling isn't even a BJJ tournament - it's submission wrestling. That particular point aside, there are plenty of examples from the real world that you can find where people of a certain belt lose to fighters of a lower belt. Sure, it doesn't happen all the time. But it does happen.

Even when both fighters are the exact same size and are considered the best in the world (think McGregor vs. Aldo), one fighter can still completely destroy the other extremely fast. I mean, nobody saw that particular knockout coming! Sure, McGregor will tell you he did. LOL. But nobody else in MMA predicted that. Does the fact that McGregor knocked Aldo out with one punch inside of 15 seconds or whatever it was make it NOT a competitive fight? Of course not. But it sure was one-sided, right? So having everything exactly balanced doesn't actually mean much. In fact, in the boxing / MMA world the weight classes are primarily for safety, because a heavier fighter can generate way more destructive power with a punch to the head than a lighter fighter can (even though a lighter fighter can still knock a heavier fighter out). Good thing we're talking wrestling though, right? Where that sort of thing doesn't really factor in.

So...now its strength AND size AND stamina AND skill that influence a particular match's outcome.

What about the rules? Oh, shoot, we forgot about the rules!

I already mentioned the fact that the 25-minutes of non-stop wrestling is exhausting (ask any of the female fighters we've worked with, even the top ones like VeVe or Ariel or Sheena). Don't believe them or me? Join a BJJ gym and try rolling with someone who's just a blue belt for a few minutes and let us all know how tired you got and how fast it happened.

On top of that, we don't require fighters to 'reset' after each submission. That means when someone scores a submission, they just have to break the hold and they can immediately attack regardless of whether their opponent is ready or not. Think about that when you're 15 minutes into a gruelling competitive match, and you're starting to gas out, and your opponent taps you out but you STILL can't get a moment to catch your breath because they're on you again.

Then, of course, we allow plenty of things that you won't see at a BJJ tournament (like smothering, hand-on-throat choking, many of The Spoiler's opponent's abuse the no-ref aspect by grabbing and pulling his mask to control his head and torque his neck - trying fighting with that handicap sometime! - and body-striking) but we also DO NOT allow things that might benefit a guy like The Spoiler. For instance, our matches are ground-based, primarily for safety, which means The Spoiler can't pick anyone up and slam them. I mean, let's be real here, if he were allowed to do that then most of his matches would end very quickly. But also, probably, with his opponent being injured. And nobody wants to see anyone get injured (which is why we also don't allow things like heel-hooks, ankle locks and knee-bars).

So, right, it's size AND strength AND stamina AND skill AND the match rules that all play an important part in a match's outcome. And there are even more aspects to it than that (like, how sharp are a fighter's skills / how hard have they been training leading up to the fight, or are they nursing an injury that occurred recently, are they properly rested, did they get a full night's sleep and so on. I mean, I'm not even kidding, it's a long list of things that factor into the results of a competition to varying degrees).

I mean, if you still think our matches aren't competitive after reading all that AND having seen a match, then nothing is going to change your mind except, as I mentioned, going to a BJJ gym and seeing how hard even light rolling during a BJJ class is!

Finally, the entire point of competition (both people, or both teams, trying their best to win within the rules) is that the outcome is in doubt until it's over. Even when, on paper, it doesn't seem like it should be. You pay your ticket to cheer for your favourite team, and even if they're amazing, sometimes they lose. That's how actual competition is. For example, I was massive Chicago Bulls fan during Michael Jordan's prime. That was one of the greatest teams EVER. And they still lost sometimes. But that's why the competitions are held - because you don't know the outcome until the competitors face off and the final buzzer sounds. You either love that aspect of sport. Or you don't. If you don't, that's okay. But that's the nature of actual competition. I honestly can't recall ever having said, well, I only want to watch tonight's game if I know for sure that the Bulls win.

Anyhow, I don't mean to rant. I definitely appreciate that everyone has their preferences. And their opinions. But I have come around to the insight that often people who are adamant that a smaller woman can't beat a bigger man (therefore, if she does, the match MUST NOT be truly competitive) aren't really concerned with the competition, they're primarily concerned with watching something that reinforces the validity of their specific fetish (which, and this is completely anecdotal and not scientifically proven of course, is they would just rather see the girl win by defeating a smaller and less skilled male). And that's totally okay, too!

Anyhow, enough about The Spoiler. If you look at the Fighter Profiles section of our site, there are matches with other male wrestlers of various sizes and skill levels. Of course, the female fighters we work with come in different sizes, too (different heights, different weight classes, different skill levels) but nobody ever seems too concerned when it's a match featuring a 180 lbs. female bodybuilder vs. a 130 lbs. female BJJ blue belt and the smaller fighter happens to win. I wonder why that is?!

I get it. We all like different things. You don't have to like the things we like. And vice-versa. But don't knock them simply because they're not your thing. I see people say 'well, if they did X, Y or Z then I would buy their videos' (and they're not just saying that about Absolute Mixed Wrestling, I see that same sentiment about other producers or other genres etc.) but the fact of the matter is that we never created Absolute Mixed Wrestling to appeal to everyone. We do 100% competitive wrestling, like the banner at the top of our site says, with no weight classes and no gender divisions. We don't do any fantasy or scripted stuff. And we don't even offer customs. Think about that. We get offers all the time to shoot non-competitive customs. But we politely say no, thank you. We turn down the opportunity to make extra money because we only film competitive matches.

We do that, and only that, because that's what we like (to all the various posters here who, correctly, pointed out that, at the end of the day, we want to watch something that excites us). And if you happen to like that same thing, great, then we're the site for you. If you happen to like something else, awesome, there's a site that's just right for you out there, too.

The internet is full of things. There are enough things to go around. Find the thing you love, and enjoy that thing. And if you can't find it, make it.

Fan of Absolute Mixed Wrestling or otherwise, we genuinely want you be happy. We all deserve to be.

Cheers, everyone.


Yes, but people who squawk loudest about "fake" matches aren't interested in facts.

They seem to have some problem with the idea of a woman out-wrestling a man ...

And they go online so they can insult people who disagree with them
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  #56  
Old 26-Mar-20, 08:29
fluffy1 fluffy1 is offline
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Default Re: The Competitive Mixed Wrestling Dilemma

Well,i Believe that most of the competitive wrestling matches that we see are not actually competitive specially DWW etc but there were/are some companies that still make proper competitve matches and there are women who can kick any man's ass in a competitve fight.Take for example Sheena,she is a BJJ and also bodybuilder so any guy who might be fight goes against her will lose to her in strength and also skills.Back in the day Joanne Lee was 182lbs Heavy weight Female Bodybuilder but what made her different was her sheer strength,Agility and Her holds and wrestling skills.If you watch her matches she was extremely powerful but agility and some wrestling skills made her unbeatable...

Added after 6 minutes:

Sheena against a 100kg Guy and Joanne Lee against 92kg guy.Do you think any woman who as the ability of lifting above 90kilos guys and also has wrestling ability,any normal guy has a chance against them?
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Last edited by fluffy1; 26-Mar-20 at 08:29.
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  #57  
Old 26-Mar-20, 15:00
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Default Re: The Competitive Mixed Wrestling Dilemma

There is one more point about some bodybuilders that may appear to be counter intuitive. Some bodybuilders are actually not that strong. Some steroids are so potent that even using comparatively light weights, muscle tissue grows like crazy. I've seen some very big men in the gym who used ridiculously light weights and were twice my size. Same with some female bodybuilders. The reason that they are not that strong is that their central nervous system never learned to move heavy weights. However, with a bit of strength training, they learn how to use those muscles to get very strong very fast.

If a woman, who was very skilled and very strong, wrestled one of these men who were using strong steroids with little real strength training and the man had no skills, it is certainly possible maybe even likely that she would win. However, if he started wrestling regularly, his skills would start to become just reasonable and he would start to become stronger. Very quickly, he would start to dominate his opponents.



These days, I only wrestle my wife. She is very strong, very probably much stronger than you but over all not as strong as me. (for one or two muscles, she is competitive with me) If we wrestle competitively, I almost always I can win at will, but every so often things line up for her. It just does not happen that often.
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Old 28-Mar-20, 18:06
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  #58  
Old 05-Jun-22, 17:56
Oga boga Oga boga is offline
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Default Re: The Competitive Mixed Wrestling Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by brsimmons [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I honestly wonder if it's really 100% competitive. I downloaded and watched one of their videos with him against a top female wrestler, and, yeh, he lost; but I watched closely, and a few times it definitely looked as if he could have secured a hold or broken one or whatever but didn't try hard enough to make it happen. I've watched a ton of mixed films over the years, and I would guess maybe no more than a third were genuinely competitive, i. e., the guy did everything he could to win. Some of that is probably guys just not wanting to go full-out against gals more than a company scripting the winner. The two I named (I'll attach the thumbnails from each) were so great because there was no doubt of the authenticity. In one case the girl, Jana N, is just an amazingly good wrestler (she beat Gernot, who always tries, something like 4-0), and in the other, Claire, who is 5-10, 150ish, is athletic, and Ivan was worn out having just finished a tough match with Vladka. The films I have seen from FightPulse appear to be authentically competitive, and FD still puts out some good ones.

Just because a guy makes a mistake in a competitive match does mean he didnt go all out lol.

Added after 16 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClckwrkOra [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Yes, but people who squawk loudest about "fake" matches aren't interested in facts.

They seem to have some problem with the idea of a woman out-wrestling a man ...

And they go online so they can insult people who disagree with them

Its surprising to me how many people on a mixed wrestling site are like this i guess even some of them still cant let go of their egos and admit they a women can defeat guy competitively

Last edited by Oga boga; 05-Jun-22 at 17:56.
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  #59  
Old 05-Jun-22, 20:23
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Default Re: The Competitive Mixed Wrestling Dilemma

For me I'd like to see a real mixed competitive match no matter who wins. If I already know who's winning, it's a waste of time for me. The match could be labeled as competitive but if the woman wins all the time, it doesn't seem competitive.
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Old 05-Jun-22, 21:40
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Default Re: The Competitive Mixed Wrestling Dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxboxer [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
There is one more point about some bodybuilders that may appear to be counter intuitive. Some bodybuilders are actually not that strong. Some steroids are so potent that even using comparatively light weights, muscle tissue grows like crazy. I've seen some very big men in the gym who used ridiculously light weights and were twice my size. Same with some female bodybuilders. The reason that they are not that strong is that their central nervous system never learned to move heavy weights. However, with a bit of strength training, they learn how to use those muscles to get very strong very fast.

If a woman, who was very skilled and very strong, wrestled one of these men who were using strong steroids with little real strength training and the man had no skills, it is certainly possible maybe even likely that she would win. However, if he started wrestling regularly, his skills would start to become just reasonable and he would start to become stronger. Very quickly, he would start to dominate his opponents.



These days, I only wrestle my wife. She is very strong, very probably much stronger than you but over all not as strong as me. (for one or two muscles, she is competitive with me) If we wrestle competitively, I almost always I can win at will, but every so often things line up for her. It just does not happen that often.
Heavy steroid usage can lead to very serious health problems furth down the road for the comp.etition body builder
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