Go Back   Male vs Female | The Mixed Wrestling Forum > Mixed Wrestling & Fighting > Wrestling & Fighting Discussion



Check out the latest release by Fight Pulse: Bianca vs Andreas.
Preview photos are available in this topic. Get this video at: Fight Pulse - MX-251.




Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #391  
Old 25-Oct-20, 20:33
Juvi Juvi is offline
Member
Points: 7,536, Level: 37 Points: 7,536, Level: 37 Points: 7,536, Level: 37
Activity: 11.9% Activity: 11.9% Activity: 11.9%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 555
Thanks: 657
Thanked 505 Times in 259 Posts
Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark.johnson21 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Perhaps I shouldn't use the term "we" -- you're right. But there have been several people on your side of the discussion who have trolled me both on here and on different threads and have gone out of their way to be unnecessarily hostile and accusatory. I don't find that to be respectable or appropriate behavior on here. If there are some on my side of the discussion who are doing that as well -- I don't feel that's tolerable, either.
Actually this is not want I ment about "we" but the last part I quote below. Where you have a respectful approch towards the ladies and others not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark.johnson21 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

If it's all just about saving the sanctity of session wrestlers, I mean... they're strong, confident women that we pay to dominate us. I really don't think they need our help standing up for themselves, you know...?
You are right they can stand up for themselves for sure, but they are not on here, and so those who think that session fees are mostly ok, point out their opinion and thereby īdefendīthe women.

That doesnīt mean I agree with everything session wrestlers are doing or charging. The initial post of this thread (by a guy who only posted this in may and than disappeared ) was complaining about prices of 500-700. And while 500 is still ok for me if itīs really someone special I am interested in, and the maximum I ever paid for a 1 hour session. But I would not pay 600-700. Those prices I also consider too much, and donīt session those girls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bk4140 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Let's come together and curb this as a community. Women are charging $500-700 plus dollars for one hour of wrestling. Outrageous. Lets keep it at $350 and politely decline if its more than that. If we don't, this will become the norm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark.johnson21 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

I've said this before, but let me make this as clear as possible:

I have never EVER asked or demanded a session wrestler to cut her prices on my behalf, and I never would. She is 100% entitled to charge whatever she thinks is fair for her time -- and I am not going to dispute that with her. But as a would-be customer, I have the freedom to decide whether or not I think her rate is reasonable for me or not. If I think it's too high, I politely decline and find someone else. I don't disrespect her by telling her that she isn't worth what she's charging. God no. I don't know why you keep thinking I'm doing that -- I'm absolutely not. Do I wish they'd charge less? Sure. Do I expect them to? Only if they're not making enough at their current rate. Even if I think lower rates would help more session wrestlers get more money because I think it would result in more clients, I don't expect them to lower their rates and I certainly am not going to tell them to.
I consider your approach here wery correct and respectful, and I would as well decline a session if I consider the price exagerated, and look for somebody else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mark.johnson21 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Do I wish they'd charge less? Sure. Do I expect them to? Only if they're not making enough at their current rate.
I would also wish they would charge less. But I am well aware itīs unrealistic unless they get no work at the current rate.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mark.johnson21 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Even if I think lower rates would help more session wrestlers get more money because I think it would result in more clients, I don't expect them to lower their rates and I certainly am not going to tell them to.
May be they would, but they would have to work more for the same money in first place, and much more for more money. So if they make enough with the current fee, is it worth it to work much more for may be a little more money ?
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Juvi For This Useful Post:
Old 25-Oct-20, 21:01
KillerCrushes
This message has been deleted by KillerCrushes. Reason: meh
  #392  
Old 25-Oct-20, 23:20
mark.johnson21 mark.johnson21 is offline
Member
Points: 8,234, Level: 38 Points: 8,234, Level: 38 Points: 8,234, Level: 38
Activity: 2.4% Activity: 2.4% Activity: 2.4%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 262
Thanks: 54
Thanked 436 Times in 136 Posts
Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvi [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
May be they would, but they would have to work more for the same money in first place, and much more for more money. So if they make enough with the current fee, is it worth it to work much more for may be a little more money ?
If they already make enough at their current rate, yes, there's no reason to change anything -- absolutely agreed. But my understanding from session wrestlers I've talked to (even very well known ones) is that they're frequently getting clients who either don't show-up or don't commit to sessions, and they end up with lots of empty time slots in which they're making $0 when they could be making hundreds.

As a self-employed independent contractor, I can absolutely relate. Years ago, I was frequently ghosted on by clients when I refused to negotiate and lower my rates -- and the result was a much emptier schedule than I wanted. After awhile, I decided to offer a 25% holiday discount (that continued indefinitely). I found 33-50% to be far too big of a discount as to be not worth it, but 25%? That I could live with and still respect myself.

The result? The number of clients and gigs I had doubled, and my income increased 65%. Clients who had ghosted on me before now wanted to hire me. I honestly didn't care that I was working more -- I preferred that to the frequent empty gaps in my schedule in which I was making nothing at all.

Point being -- this strategy could conceivably work for the session wrestlers who aren't making as much as they'd like. I am not saying that it definitely would -- but I'm also not saying that it definitely wouldn't. Sometimes, working for a little less can end up making you a lot more. Whether any session wrestlers decide to do it is totally up to them -- I am not in a position to tell them what to do. I'm just saying it's not necessarily a bad idea to consider if they're struggling to get clients.

Added after 22 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by uxiel [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I think your mistake was lumping yourself in with the other guys who were complaining. Your argument seems to be more that you know more about their customers/prices than they do, and they should lower prices because you believe they'll make more money. I am not sure why this argument went on for pages because none of us has the data to support or deny that. I would argue that claiming to know more about the right price than the session girls is a bit condescending. There is nothing wrong with walking away from a price you deem too high.

The other guys are absolutely bitter, entitled, and upset with guys like me who don't mind spending $400 once in a while.

On the other hand, if you're consistently getting 5/10 sessions at any price point, I don't think it's worth repeating the same lousy experience.
You may be right. I could be lumping myself in with a certain viewpoint that I'm not exactly 100% behind. Definitely possible that I'm operating under certain assumptions myself. So fair point.

And you're right -- none of us really has any real data to support anything we're saying, which makes this thread all the more ridiculous lol

I understand their bitterness. They feel that if everyone keeps agreeing to pay high rates, then every session wrestler will keep upping their prices, and then the only customers left will be the very rich ones. I have no idea if they're right or not. It's partly envious, sure, but it's also the idea of "Why can't this be something we all can enjoy? Why should this only be for the rich?"

Personally, I am willing to pay the $400 -- and have as recently as two weeks ago. I'm just not willing to do it as often as I would if it were $300. @ $400, I leave feeling underwhelmed. @ $300, I leave feeling a bit better. That's my personal feeling on it so far. If I ended up with a bunch of crappy $300 sessions in a row, then yeah, I'd probably shoot for $400 only and hope there's a noticeable difference. I haven't personally seen one yet. It probably varies person to person. I did resign myself a year ago to not do any more sessions after I left a $325 and $450 one thoroughly unsatisfied. But then after reading a bunch of reviews from others about how amazing their time was, I thought maybe I was missing something and should give it another shot. Can't help having the drive to enjoy being dominated by beautiful women, even if the reality of it ends up not being as satisfying as I'd like.

Last edited by mark.johnson21; 25-Oct-20 at 23:20.
The Following User Says Thank You to mark.johnson21 For This Useful Post:
  #393  
Old 26-Oct-20, 00:31
gutpunch gutpunch is offline
Member
Points: 2,659, Level: 21 Points: 2,659, Level: 21 Points: 2,659, Level: 21
Activity: 10.4% Activity: 10.4% Activity: 10.4%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 109
Thanks: 178
Thanked 483 Times in 84 Posts
Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royh [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Ok this will be my last message in this thread as it has exhausted itself. @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] you can’t teach me anything if you never had a session in your life.

Reading this thread confirms what I heard from so many session wrestlers , about cheapskates, time wasters and overall obnoxious disrespectful customers that make their experience bad, despite many clients being fun and respectful.

This is why I had decided, that once sessions are possible again, I will voluntarily add 20% to the wrestlers asking fee, in an attempt to remove those awful people from potentially hurting the wrestlers.

Roger, and out.
That is unfortunate. If you only knew how much money I have given to these wrestlers your jaw would drop.
  #394  
Old 26-Oct-20, 00:48
pinme pinme is offline
Temporary group
Points: 7,133, Level: 36 Points: 7,133, Level: 36 Points: 7,133, Level: 36
Activity: 7.1% Activity: 7.1% Activity: 7.1%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 416
Thanks: 6
Thanked 612 Times in 268 Posts
Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

In the first place, $300 in 1990 is equal to nearly $600 in 2000. So session prices have not increased as much as inflation.

In the second place, I always look at it as I am paying not just for the two hours, but also for all of the time and effort the session girl put into training as well as the excitement of anticipating the session and reliving the moment later.

In the third place, she is putting herself out there to offer sessions and that has value.

And in the fourth place, if you can’t afford it, don’t do it.
  #395  
Old 26-Oct-20, 01:03
gutpunch gutpunch is offline
Member
Points: 2,659, Level: 21 Points: 2,659, Level: 21 Points: 2,659, Level: 21
Activity: 10.4% Activity: 10.4% Activity: 10.4%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 109
Thanks: 178
Thanked 483 Times in 84 Posts
Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

I have no problem with uxiel and others wanting to pay a lot for a session. I have a problem with us not having a say in the matter. We are customers. And 300 in 1990 was a lot. But I agree, if you all want to pay more you can.
But with the growing new people producers and female entertainers creating new clip stores on a daily basis and offering sessions of their own. No one really answered me when I asked ''why would you want money leaving the wrestlers and going to non wrestlers?''
All I got was ''if you dont want to pay it then don't'' which is what I have been doing.
Can anyone in here tell me if they ever got ripped off?
Has anyone given a deposit and got no showed from a session wrestler?
How about clock watchers that short session you?

As I said before there are good session wrestlers and there are bad ones. If a good session wrestler were to come in here and say ''I will make you a custom video exactly how you like it and I wont do what the others have done''
Then guess what. I will happily pay it.
The same way I do with the session wrestlers that I currently work with. But as a customer. getting told pay it or get out of the scene does not sit well with me.
But on a different topic, your all great people.
  #396  
Old 26-Oct-20, 01:16
Subboy2's Avatar
Subboy2 Subboy2 is offline
Member
Points: 19,382, Level: 60 Points: 19,382, Level: 60 Points: 19,382, Level: 60
Activity: 7.1% Activity: 7.1% Activity: 7.1%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,137
Thanks: 2,621
Thanked 2,808 Times in 653 Posts
Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by gutpunch [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I have no problem with uxiel and others wanting to pay a lot for a session. I have a problem with us not having a say in the matter. We are customers. And 300 in 1990 was a lot. But I agree, if you all want to pay more you can.
But with the growing new people producers and female entertainers creating new clip stores on a daily basis and offering sessions of their own. No one really answered me when I asked ''why would you want money leaving the wrestlers and going to non wrestlers?''
All I got was ''if you dont want to pay it then don't'' which is what I have been doing.
Can anyone in here tell me if they ever got ripped off?
Has anyone given a deposit and got no showed from a session wrestler?
How about clock watchers that short session you?

As I said before there are good session wrestlers and there are bad ones. If a good session wrestler were to come in here and say ''I will make you a custom video exactly how you like it and I wont do what the others have done''
Then guess what. I will happily pay it.
The same way I do with the session wrestlers that I currently work with. But as a customer. getting told pay it or get out of the scene does not sit well with me.
But on a different topic, your all great people.
Nope. I've had around 90 ish sessions and not once felt ripped off. I do my research before booking quite thoroughly though, making sure the price suits my budget and the skillet and attitude of the lady are too my liking.

Maybe I've just been lucky, but that's how it's been.
  #397  
Old 26-Oct-20, 01:41
gutpunch gutpunch is offline
Member
Points: 2,659, Level: 21 Points: 2,659, Level: 21 Points: 2,659, Level: 21
Activity: 10.4% Activity: 10.4% Activity: 10.4%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 109
Thanks: 178
Thanked 483 Times in 84 Posts
Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subboy2 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Nope. I've had around 90 ish sessions and not once felt ripped off. I do my research before booking quite thoroughly though, making sure the price suits my budget and the skillet and attitude of the lady are too my liking.

Maybe I've just been lucky, but that's how it's been.
Ok Subboy, I respect that reply. If you are a happy customer then by all means keep doing what your doing. See I am not against session wrestlers making money in spite of how people interpret or misinterpret me. I just feel that there is a better way for them to make money and even more money.
When I said money is leaving the session wrestlers and going to non session wrestlers to make customs, I am saying that I would like to see things turned around so that the session wrestlers could be the ones getting the custom money.
This year I gave a lot to non wrestling producers (see I am not cheap, lol) and normally I don't care to even post here. (been a lurker for years,lol ) but I just seen things change since the 80s and 90s and not all changes have been for the better. We had more choices back then and when we emailed a wrestler they were interested in our thoughts.
The good news is that I have a handful of great session wrestlers still working with me on projects.
And in spite of what royh may say, I used to know a lot of session wrestlers personally. Meeting them to share ideas in person with them on new videos was a common thing for me 15 to 25 years ago. So we will see. I got a great new session wrestler that is working with me now and she loves my ideas.
Hopefully you will all see what we can come up with.
The Following User Says Thank You to gutpunch For This Useful Post:
  #398  
Old 26-Oct-20, 19:42
Fritz Fritz is offline
Banned
Points: 6,746, Level: 35 Points: 6,746, Level: 35 Points: 6,746, Level: 35
Activity: 99.0% Activity: 99.0% Activity: 99.0%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 527
Thanks: 186
Thanked 855 Times in 234 Posts
Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Unbelievable (if not to say scandalous) that posting #392 only got my thanks and from noboday else.

Last edited by Fritz; 26-Oct-20 at 19:42.
  #399  
Old 26-Oct-20, 20:15
Juvi Juvi is offline
Member
Points: 7,536, Level: 37 Points: 7,536, Level: 37 Points: 7,536, Level: 37
Activity: 11.9% Activity: 11.9% Activity: 11.9%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 555
Thanks: 657
Thanked 505 Times in 259 Posts
Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark.johnson21 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
If they already make enough at their current rate, yes, there's no reason to change anything -- absolutely agreed. But my understanding from session wrestlers I've talked to (even very well known ones) is that they're frequently getting clients who either don't show-up or don't commit to sessions, and they end up with lots of empty time slots in which they're making $0 when they could be making hundreds.

As a self-employed independent contractor, I can absolutely relate. Years ago, I was frequently ghosted on by clients when I refused to negotiate and lower my rates -- and the result was a much emptier schedule than I wanted. After awhile, I decided to offer a 25% holiday discount (that continued indefinitely). I found 33-50% to be far too big of a discount as to be not worth it, but 25%? That I could live with and still respect myself.

The result? The number of clients and gigs I had doubled, and my income increased 65%. Clients who had ghosted on me before now wanted to hire me. I honestly didn't care that I was working more -- I preferred that to the frequent empty gaps in my schedule in which I was making nothing at all.

Point being -- this strategy could conceivably work for the session wrestlers who aren't making as much as they'd like. I am not saying that it definitely would -- but I'm also not saying that it definitely wouldn't. Sometimes, working for a little less can end up making you a lot more. Whether any session wrestlers decide to do it is totally up to them -- I am not in a position to tell them what to do. I'm just saying it's not necessarily a bad idea to consider if they're struggling to get clients.
I see and understand your point. And itīs true this does work is some cases, may be in more than I would imagine, and may be for some session wrestlers who really donīt get much work.
For those that have enough business, I donīt think so. May be they can also earn more, but would have to work much more.

No shows are indeed a problem,like you write even for well known girls. Do you believe itīs only because of the price ? I think most of those guys (as well as time wasters via mail) never intend to do a session. May be some would at 100 (?)...but going down from 400 to 100 is hardly an option for any of the girls.
  #400  
Old 26-Oct-20, 21:33
ours01's Avatar
ours01 ours01 is offline
Moderator [D]
Points: 38,244, Level: 85 Points: 38,244, Level: 85 Points: 38,244, Level: 85
Activity: 99.2% Activity: 99.2% Activity: 99.2%
Last Achievements
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,144
Thanks: 12,581
Thanked 8,512 Times in 2,397 Posts
Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

#400 posts and still not surrender that we are living in a capitalism system.

Specially if american or english people are horryfied about the increasing prices sessiongirls, i ask me seriously, ARE YOU COMMUNIST. DO YOU WANT PLANNED ECONOMY??? I'm quite social with a understanding about capitalism. Good capitalism is when everybody are winners. Robery or Sharkcapitalsim is when rich people shoot out people from their entreprise NOT for saving their entreprise but for satisfying an encreasing greed! But if a sessiongirls ask more, let's do it, the marked will decide and if people pays the price it's a question of offer and demand AND nothing other. I would also fight vs Sheena for Euro 200.-- but if she want to adopt prices like the best americans and people pays for this, it's justifyed. But if you're not happy tell them... maybe if people stop's to go and thell them why, price will fall. This is the market!

And i repeat again. In the 80ties we where shocked about Italian clubs paying 10-20 millions Dollar for a soccer player. Nowadays, Spanish and English clubs makes a competition who will buy the most expensive player and the prices are 100/200/300 millions Dollars... THIS IS STUPID AND CRAZY!!!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ours01 For This Useful Post:
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
has anyone found the secret to getting lower rates for sessions yet? BlackTiger Wrestling & Fighting Discussion 20 08-Apr-21 05:14
Average session rates NeoBasilisk Wrestling & Fighting Discussion 93 23-Nov-20 17:05
Outrageous Rates MWFan Wrestling & Fighting Discussion 22 08-Jan-17 04:00
Two hand choke Ricoswrap Wrestling & Fighting Discussion 6 11-Dec-16 13:18
rates marcos silva Wrestling & Fighting Discussion 3 28-Jun-13 09:21


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:57.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.